Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Omega_DCD]

I think this was low-key impressive of Jean...this is from Legion Quest. Even after withstanding Storm's hurricane force winds for a time, and anchoring herself in place from Legion's chronal warp, and telepathically piercing through the chronal energy distortions to contact Xavier...she was still able to encase herself in a telekinetic cocoon to protect her body from the desert storm...even after losing consciousness, long enough for the rest of the team to find her.

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I just wish the art actually showed it

[Shreene]

The issue with her Pink Form (as discussed in a different thread) is that it makes Jean far too powerful to be safe in a street comic setting. Being able to one shot Galactus as long as there is "ambient psychic energy" in the area is punching well above the X-Men's weight class.

I'm sure Storm fans will tell you that Ororo could easily floor Galactus if she wanted to... Personally, I hope Adult Jean has gained the "Pink" form via her memory-merger with her teenage self.

[Havok83]

As far as the pink form, does it have the potential to make her OP? Yes but it most definitely didnt. People act as if she was using it every arc and one shotting her opponents but she didnt. At its basic form, its something used to amplify her TK and at its strongest, we saw her use it offensively to hit Galactus. Defensively, she used it to rebuild her body. Those werent normal instances and under regular conditions, its not something she'd be expected to do all the time. Looking at X-men Red and all her appearances in one shots last year, there wasnt any circumstance where she would have needed to use it. I dont think she needed it in Disassenbled either. Arguably people might say to defeat Nate but Jean has a connection to him and was more focused on rehabilitation and neutralizing him than hurting him. And she was successful until he pulled out that life seed which was completely unexpected. Jean's pink form should be reserved for dire situations and she hasnt been placed in those yet. Her regular TK (and TP) has been sufficient for the threats we've seen her face

[PsychoEFrost]

As far as the pink form, does it have the potential to make her OP? Yes but it most definitely didnt. People act as if she was using it every arc and one shotting her opponents but she didnt. At its basic form, its something used to amplify her TK and at its strongest, we saw her use it offensively to hit Galactus. Defensively, she used it to rebuild her body. Those werent normal instances and under regular conditions, its not something she'd be expected to do all the time. Looking at X-men Red and all her appearances in one shots last year, there wasnt any circumstance where she would have needed to use it. I dont think she needed it in Disassenbled either. Arguably people might say to defeat Nate but Jean has a connection to him and was more focused on rehabilitation and neutralizing him than hurting him. And she was successful until he pulled out that life seed which was completely unexpected. Jean's pink form should be reserved for dire situations and she hasnt been placed in those yet. Her regular TK (and TP) has been sufficient for the threats we've seen her face

But then it turns into any DBZ fight where Goku is in base form. There isn't any danger. Unless Jean greatly pulls her punches, like she did with Nate, she will either lose in base form to increase the drama, or go Super Mutant or Super Mutant God Super Mutant Blue, and just level the opponent. It stops being a power, and starts being an instant win gimmick when the story calls for it.

Being able to severely damage cosmic level beings and rebuild your entire body from nothing is not, and should never be a street level feat. With Jean's otherwhelming cosmic level power and virtual immortality under easy to achieve circumstances, her Pink Form was basically the Phoenix without the danger of ever going Dark.

[Omega_DCD]

But then it turns into any DBZ fight where Goku is in base form. There isn't any danger. Unless Jean greatly pulls her punches, like she did with Nate, she will either lose in base form to increase the drama, or go Super Mutant or Super Mutant God Super Mutant Blue, and just level the opponent. It stops being a power, and starts being an instant win gimmick when the story calls for it.

Being able to severely damage cosmic level beings and rebuild your entire body from nothing is not, and should never be a street level feat. With Jean's otherwhelming cosmic level power and virtual immortality under easy to achieve circumstances, her Pink Form was basically the Phoenix without the danger of ever going Dark.

We've been through this before...

So far each time she used it has been a different opponent...so maybe it's more effective as a surprise. Who's to say next time Galactus wouldn't be able to shield his psionic energy from being leeched.

Also, even with a feat like that, it doesn't mean she has cosmic level stamina or resilience. She's not unbeatable

Furthermore, she isn't always surrounded by strong psionic energy, nor would it help against non-living or mechanical threats. She can't "pink form" a natural disaster

[Havok83]

But then it turns into any DBZ fight where Goku is in base form. There isn't any danger. Unless Jean greatly pulls her punches, like she did with Nate, she will either lose in base form to increase the drama, or go Super Mutant or Super Mutant God Super Mutant Blue, and just level the opponent. It stops being a power, and starts being an instant win gimmick when the story calls for it.

Being able to severely damage cosmic level beings and rebuild your entire body from nothing is not, and should never be a street level feat. With Jean's otherwhelming cosmic level power and virtual immortality under easy to achieve circumstances, her Pink Form was basically the Phoenix without the danger of ever going Dark.

There is danger if she's not doing it all the time bc again she doesnt need to as by and large most of her threats wont necessitate that. With that said, not every s Prior to this there isnt anything stopping Jean from instantly ending most fights by shutting down someone's mind or giving them a TK induced seizure. For the sake of creating a story, we dont see that bc it breaks the narrative. Magik can port anyone to limbo or teleport back in time a few seconds if someone is fatally injured, etc... There's stuff that needs to be ignored and not nitpicked for the same reason. Its unnecesary for Jean to go pink all the time when she should and can handle most situations with her base TK. When she's dealing with cosmic threats like Gladiator and Galactus and doesnt, then I would question what the heck is she doing

[fsger]

...and should never be a street level feat...

Fun fact, Jean is not on street level. She is closer to heavy hitters powerhouses like Thor

[spirit2011]

Yes I realize that Jean had control in Claremont's run leading up to Dark Phoenix, but unfortunately the Dark Phoenix event overshadows the classic Phoenix run. I mean in Avengers vs. X-men, even in a lot of the Teen Jean stories you get the idea that Jean never recovered from Dark Phoenix. It was complete b.s. All I was saying is the times she had control usually get ignored in the prevailing narratives.

They needed a example of phoenix going wrong to add some drama about phoenix. Unfortunaly I'm not sure if people didn't read the comic or took the wrong interpretation, Jean didn't went crazy because of great power but because people tampered with her mind so much that she lost control.
She was victim of abuse.
I don't think the way that Morrison told his story was any help

[RachelGrey]

But then it turns into any DBZ fight where Goku is in base form. There isn't any danger. Unless Jean greatly pulls her punches, like she did with Nate, she will either lose in base form to increase the drama, or go Super Mutant or Super Mutant God Super Mutant Blue, and just level the opponent. It stops being a power, and starts being an instant win gimmick when the story calls for it.

Being able to severely damage cosmic level beings and rebuild your entire body from nothing is not, and should never be a street level feat. With Jean's otherwhelming cosmic level power and virtual immortality under easy to achieve circumstances, her Pink Form was basically the Phoenix without the danger of ever going Dark.

lol, your mailbox is full again, I wanted to talk to you about future fight.

[Harpsikord]

Bruh.

[GeneTitan]

Bruh.

Please tell me this is official!

[Harpsikord]

Please tell me this is official!

I don't think it is I'm pretty sure the Larraz head comes from Extermination.

Boy, I wish though.

[PsychoEFrost]

There is danger if she's not doing it all the time bc again she doesnt need to as by and large most of her threats wont necessitate that. With that said, not every s Prior to this there isnt anything stopping Jean from instantly ending most fights by shutting down someone's mind or giving them a TK induced seizure. For the sake of creating a story, we dont see that bc it breaks the narrative. Magik can port anyone to limbo or teleport back in time a few seconds if someone is fatally injured, etc... There's stuff that needs to be ignored and not nitpicked for the same reason. Its unnecesary for Jean to go pink all the time when she should and can handle most situations with her base TK. When she's dealing with cosmic threats like Gladiator and Galactus and doesnt, then I would question what the heck is she doing

But with that power set available, the question becomes why should she ever lose against a threat lesser than Galactus? The situations where the Pink Form isn't useful is much smaller than situations that don't require it, and we haven't seen any kind of drawback to it.

TP and TK has been pushed to the point that every single enemy the X-Men fight magically has some form of telepathic negation just to stop Jean/Charles/Rachel/Betsy from ending the fight instantly. Having opponents suddenly using weapons that somehow inhibit the amount of ambient psychic energy solely just to negate Jean's Pink Form means that power has already warped the story.

Fun fact, Jean is not on street level. She is closer to heavy hitters powerhouses like Thor

But her teammates, by and large, ARE street level. If a teammate is Cosmic level, and their team isn't, why does the Cosmic being even need them?

Like a team of Kate Bishop, Spider-Gwen, Thing, Miles Morales, and Silver Surfer. One of those is not like the others.

[Grey]

I actually think jean’s Pink form was such a good answer to “jean as Phoenix is too powerful” because it means she scales
Up based on the threat (essentially). Thus with that power she doesn’t have access to that level all the time. Only in situations when it’s necessary.

Yet now to some folks this too is overpowered. It’s like the goal posts constantly change for what makes someone “overpowered.”

I think someday a writer will revisit pink form with adult jean, even though the current status quo for her is “she doesn’t use that ability anymore.” I look forward to that.

[PsychoEFrost]

I actually think jean’s Pink form was such a good answer to “jean as Phoenix is too powerful” because it means she scales
Up based on the threat (essentially). Thus with that power she doesn’t have access to that level all the time. Only in situations when it’s necessary.

Yet now to some folks this too is overpowered. It’s like the goal posts constantly change for what makes someone “overpowered.”

I think someday a writer will revisit pink form with adult jean, even though the current status quo for her is “she doesn’t use that ability anymore.” I look forward to that.

Being able to come back from complete annihilation solely using TK IS overpowered. It's why there is zero drama to any story Wolverine or X-23 is in (as much as I like her). They cannot die, nothing (realistic) can kill them, so they are never in any real danger. The drama comes from them not being able to achieve whatever they were trying to do.

Again, the X-Men fight regular humans, augmented humans like the Reavers, giant killer robots, and other mutants. These are almost all street-level threats outside outliers like Apocalypse or Vulcan. Being able to severely injure Galactus under laughably easy to achieve circumstances is way, way, WAY above that.