Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Celestialbodies]

Who has to be reminded, though? Why is it necessary we run through a checklist of Jean's actions per month for her presence to be valid?



She was pretty upset on the Forge in HOX. What should she have been doing at a family dinner to show more emotion?

And this was my entire point!

Listen if HOX/POX worked for you then fine, based on what I read it didn't work for me where Jean was related.That said I can also acknowledge as a whole it was a great series. Where I'm confused is, why is it we can judge other authors based on their character work but NOT Hickman? I mean weren't there crowds of Cyke fans disappointed with Rosenberg's contributions?

Sorry, but I want more than a few one liners for Jean. I’m tired of see her as just a supporting background character. I was so hoping to enjoy a force #1.

Being that it was a setup issue I understood, I personally don't need her to be the "star" but here it at least felt like Jean. I can't say the same about some of her more recent appearances. Plus if she was going to be in the supporting role I definitely always thought it would be here, given the basis of the book. But for me this was a much better start, not perfect definitely a better start.

[Punch Dimension.]

I wasn't talking about my own opinion on X-Force being a dud, i thought it was fine, but it's had a bit of a negative reaction on Twitter, Reddit etc. Much more so than the other books.

He may not have had a choice. Hickman still has bosses who know better than to just let a character be written out of character when people aren't happy about it.

I'm pretty sure Hickman's bosses are going to focus on HOX being the most successful X-Men story in almost 20 years and the bucket load of cash it made plus the new readers it's brought in versus some people being unhappy with how a relatively minor character in the story was written

[PsychoEFrost]

And this was my entire point!

Listen if HOX/POX worked for you then fine, based on what I read it didn't work for me where Jean was related.That said I can also acknowledge as a whole it was a great series. Where I'm confused is, why is it we can judge other authors based on their character work but NOT Hickman? I mean weren't there crowds of Cyke fans disappointed with Rosenberg's contributions?




Being that it was a setup issue I understood, I personally don't need her to be the "star" but here it at least felt like Jean. I can't say the same about some of her more recent appearances. Plus if she was going to be in the supporting role I definitely always thought it would be here, given the basis of the book. But for me this was a much better start, not perfect definitely a better start.

If HoX/PoX was being advertised as a Jean solo with her getting the majority of the time, and she was portrayed the way she was, Jean fans would (and should) burn the forum down. But she was a supporting player who got moderately shafted. That's a lot different than RosenCanny having Scott be one of two main characters, and then take a dump all over his face for 12 issues.

[Strong Girl Daken]

I think X-Force had a more polarized reception online. We've been soaking up the "mutants win for once" vibes because that's what writers promised, and yet X-Force depicted mutant civilians being murdered and a major character shot. X-Force #2 might completely go in an unexpected direction and reinforce how on top of shit mutants are with the resurrection protocols but we're not at that point yet. X-Force was really positively reviewed by some big websites and features Wolverine, the biggest selling character. The energy, fast pace, and seriousness is a flavour unique to it in DoX. The online fanbase has somewhat of a disconnect with readers at large when it comes to this stuff. It's a returning title with a familiar feel, so it will sell really well.

I'm really looking for moments of intensity from Jean in DoX. I've been thinking about why I've always liked her so much, and I think it's because she is generally so good-natured but always has these intense moments that lots of people forget about until she has them. The Phoenix is obviously the big example, but even things like pummelling Sabretooth occasionally (QUIET), confronting Emma in New X-men, or throwing broccoli at Gambit in TAS are things that I just love. So her blasting through the air talking about swift and cruel justice was another one of those "ok Jean chill" moments that I LIVE for.

[Narasinha]

I'm pretty sure Hickman's bosses are going to focus on HOX being the most successful X-Men story in almost 20 years and the bucket load of cash it made plus the new readers it's brought in versus some people being unhappy with how a relatively minor character in the story was written

If you remember, when Bendis was writing ANXM and UXM, there was an article about his books every day. Sometime even several the same day. Now, there is barely a reference when a book is released. Wonder who wrote the most successful X-Men stories... Or at least whose stories the press was thinking were the most successful.

[powerpax]

We are clearly not googling the same topics.

[Punch Dimension.]

If you remember, when Bendis was writing ANXM and UXM, there was an article about his books every day. Sometime even several the same day. Now, there is barely a reference when a book is released. Wonder who wrote the most successful X-Men stories... Or at least whose stories the press was thinking were the most successful.

Bendis's run did not receive the same amount of widespread attention that House Of X has lol.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Yeah every little element of HoX/PoX got its own article lol

[Narasinha]

Okey... I am looking right now at Bleedingcool main page and the only X-Men article is to say some comics went to 2nd printing. And that's far from being a special case: The number of articles about X-Men just plummeted.

I am not saying one author is better than the other. But X-Men books are a lot less spoken about and in a far smaller variety of media now. Maybe, as you said, "every little ellement of HoX/Pox" is talked about but only in specialized media for nerd readers (sorry, for fans). More mainstream press is just not giving a damn.

[Punch Dimension.]

Okey... I am looking right now at Bleedingcool main page and the only X-Men article is to say some comics went to 2nd printing. And that's far from being a special case: The number of articles about X-Men just plummeted.

I am not saying one author is better than the other. But X-Men books are a lot less spoken about and in a far smaller variety of media now. Maybe, as you said, "every little ellement of HoX/Pox" is talked about but only in specialized media for nerd readers (sorry, for fans). More mainstream press is just not giving a damn.

Do you have any links to mainstream press articles about Bendis's run.

[powerpax]

Okey... I am looking right now at Bleedingcool main page and the only X-Men article is to say some comics went to 2nd printing. And that's far from being a special case: The number of articles about X-Men just plummeted.

Your case study is Bleeding Cool's main page, today? BC runs endless X-book articles each week. As do all relevant sites. And I believe it's been considerably more printings than that since HOXPOX began.

[Punch Dimension.]

This is a very weird flex.

[Celestialbodies]

If HoX/PoX was being advertised as a Jean solo with her getting the majority of the time, and she was portrayed the way she was, Jean fans would (and should) burn the forum down. But she was a supporting player who got moderately shafted. That's a lot different than RosenCanny having Scott be one of two main characters, and then take a dump all over his face for 12 issues.

So if I'm understanding correctly, it's okay for Cyke fans to complain about Cyke who was literally the driving force behind UXM, and received most if not all the development throughout that several issue run of the flagship run. Because they didn't personally like the take, but fans of Jean should take what their given because she was given even less focus, and her portrayal was literally different from everything she'd done recently?


This is in part why I can't take some fans of Cyke and Emma seriously, their concern isn't their faves being written OOC, it's that while they are being written consistently and as the focus of whatever series their in they just don't like the direction the character is moving in.

My concerns were neither, if X-force could nail Jean while in a supporting role so could Hickman and we should be able to have that conversation especially in the Jean Grey Appreciation Thread.

[spirit2011]

If HoX/PoX was being advertised as a Jean solo with her getting the majority of the time, and she was portrayed the way she was, Jean fans would (and should) burn the forum down. But she was a supporting player who got moderately shafted. That's a lot different than RosenCanny having Scott be one of two main characters, and then take a dump all over his face for 12 issues.

Hickman said that Jean was prominent, when Jean was mostly passable and got demoted.

[Narasinha]

Do you have any links to mainstream press articles about Bendis's run.

I am not trying to prove something to you. I am just commenting on what I noticed for some time now. As someone wrote about, if you are really interested try googling.

Bendis was addressing themes that were much more relevant outside the industry of comics and in a way that was much more controversial. It was generating a lot of talk whatever people agreed/disagreed with him or liked/hated his stories.

Jeen "outing" (not really) Bobby is perhaps one of the best example but that wasn't the only one by far and nearly all his books were generating this kind of discussion in medias. And often outside specialized medias about comics.