Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Havok83]

no, she appeared soon after Scott was married, also they were together in the x-men before Scott left after the duel for leadership with storm in the danger room

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Scott was retired then. He and Rachel technically didnt serve as X-men togeher. He was already living in Alaska when she joined but he did get pulled into the Asgardian Wars crossover

[Daedra]

Scott was retired then. He and Rachel technically didnt serve as X-men togeher. He was already living in Alaska when she joined but he did get pulled into the Asgardian Wars crossover

sure ...I just wanted to highlight the fact that Rachel and the pf made appearance on the x-men before Jean's resurrection, when scott had his duel with storm in the danger room Rachel had already claimed the force in the grey's house

but they did have at least 1 or 2 issue together as x-men :

this is uncanny x-men 200 soon after the asgardian wars

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[WallStreeter]

I would rather have had stories for 4-5 years with Jean as Phoenix. During that time, Jean herself realizes that the PF is not for her as it is a cosmic entity--she talks to it and releases it. Afterwards, as a result of the PF and as a parting gift, Jean's powers are still greatly enhanced.

No death and destruction. No Jean "going crazy" or being "too weak of will" to control the PF and no Jean death and abscence from her fans for multiple years.

But why does she have to release it, knowing what you know about the real reason she was killed off. I mean, Ghost Rider can keep his demonic forces. Dr. Strange has ties to all sorts of mystical forces. Magik is a hell lord.

Thor gets to have his hammer or whatever magical weapon and be an immortal god. The Scarlet Witch still has huge magical powers.

[WallStreeter]

That and they are about to launch the Major X event/mini. Timing is just off especially since the AoX goes on through the summer. At best, I expect to see Phoenix variants across the line of books

They could do one shot or mini series. Or just rerelease various Phoenix trades. But I'm pretty sure it will make it's way into the current books somehow.

[Phoenixx9]

But why does she have to release it, knowing what you know about the real reason she was killed off. I mean, Ghost Rider can keep his demonic forces. Dr. Strange has ties to all sorts of mystical forces. Magik is a hell lord.

Thor gets to have his hammer or whatever magical weapon and be an immortal god. The Scarlet Witch still has huge magical powers.

Only because Marvel would never let her keep it and all that power. In addition, writers can't seem to come up with stories that allow Jean to be that powerful and Shine. Even your fellow fans on here say that Jean as Phoenix was too powerful compared to the other team members or the foes X-Men fight! These fans also say that Jean being anywhere near the PF means only death for Jean.

Even at her power level today, whatever that is, Jean should stand way above the others. But she does not. Everyone has been raised in power and every other mutant is now an Omega level mutant. I don't see Marvel touting Jean as Uber powerful.

[phoenixzero23]

I mean Jean should obviousy be the most powerful member most of the time but everybody jobs in comics, it is inevitable.

For example both thor and superman, fight enemies equal or stronger than them and loss fights all the time. If powerful characters just kicked everybody all the stories would be boring.

I try to not take power levels too seriously. it is better that way.

[PsychoEFrost]

But why does she have to release it, knowing what you know about the real reason she was killed off. I mean, Ghost Rider can keep his demonic forces. Dr. Strange has ties to all sorts of mystical forces. Magik is a hell lord.

Thor gets to have his hammer or whatever magical weapon and be an immortal god. The Scarlet Witch still has huge magical powers.

Ghost Rider, Thor, and Strange fight cosmic level forces. Magik may be very powerful, but with the X-Men she's mostly reduced to power incontinence or as the famous "Magik School Bus".

Jean could easily stay Phoenix if she was with the Avengers. Relative strength matches a lot better there. But look at the usual X-Men baddies:

Purifiers? Nuh uh. Friends of Humanity? No way. Reavers? Nope. Magneto and his Brotherhood? Not likely (Morrison's little Deus Ex notwithstanding, Magneto is zero match for Jean as Phoenix). Sentinels? Not a chance.

The only X-opponents that even stand a little bit of a chance are Apocalypse, a prepared Mister Sinister, Stryfe at full power, and Madeline at full Goblin Queen power. That's about it. And Jean is still heavily favored in those fights before you take any other X-Men into account.

My biggest example of this was from DPS with the X-Men versus the Shi'Ar Imperial Guard. The Guard thoroughly wreck the entire X team without taking any losses whatsoever. Jean goes Phoenix and instantly knocks out every single one of them.

[Del torro]

Ghost Rider, Thor, and Strange fight cosmic level forces. Magik may be very powerful, but with the X-Men she's mostly reduced to power incontinence or as the famous "Magik School Bus".

Jean could easily stay Phoenix if she was with the Avengers. Relative strength matches a lot better there. But look at the usual X-Men baddies:

Purifiers? Nuh uh. Friends of Humanity? No way. Reavers? Nope. Magneto and his Brotherhood? Not likely (Morrison's little Deus Ex notwithstanding, Magneto is zero match for Jean as Phoenix). Sentinels? Not a chance.

The only X-opponents that even stand a little bit of a chance are Apocalypse, a prepared Mister Sinister, Stryfe at full power, and Madeline at full Goblin Queen power. That's about it. And Jean is still heavily favored in those fights before you take any other X-Men into account.

My biggest example of this was from DPS with the X-Men versus the Shi'Ar Imperial Guard. The Guard thoroughly wreck the entire X team without taking any losses whatsoever. Jean goes Phoenix and instantly knocks out every single one of them.

Yeah...
If you read the interview in Phoenix untold story, Claremont talks about how after saving the universe he had to write in that Jean had psychic blocks that reduced her powers.

Phoenix is good for cosmic stories where the survival of the universe is at stake, but breaks the plot in normal stories where is constantly being depowered so that Mesmero or Donald Pierce can be a threat.

I'd prefer is they returned Jeans connection to the Phoenix, but with an understanding that she can't use its power on a normal daily basis, because cosmic gods prefer not to interfere in trivial matters. But if there is a universal threat or a threat to the time line, she becomes fully able to tap into her Phoenix powers.


For example. An alien race is invading earth, it seems that they have successfully taken over. Only a few heroes are left as the resistance. The Xmen and avengers want Jean the tap into the Phoenix and be their bug gun in the battle to come. But she refuses because the Phoenix feels that this is trivial and the heroes will win eventually.
They do win, but with some loss of life and injuries,all this without Phoenix help. Jean at the end instinctively manifests the Phoenix to convert some radioactive plants, and the X-Men are pissed because she's using her power for something stupid instead of saving lives. (unknown to them and Jean, the plants would have given a random weirdo the power to affect cosmic balance and wipe out galaxies).

Then you have events where Surtur takes constrol of The one above all, eternity and Franklin Richards, and all the heroes gather around to stop him. In this case, Jean gets full access to the Phoenix force, but would still get over powered and beaten if she doesn't work with others

[PwrdOn]

This is why the right move from the beginning would have been to spin Jean off into her own cosmic series where she could do her own thing while the X-Men dealt with more grounded issues, while exploiting her connection to the team for frequent crossovers. But I mean, power levels were never the real issue, Marvel was just uncomfortable that the girlfriend character somehow became more popular than the heroes, and decided that the universe needed to be set right by any means necessary, not much more to it.

[spirit2011]

This is why the right move from the beginning would have been to spin Jean off into her own cosmic series where she could do her own thing while the X-Men dealt with more grounded issues, while exploiting her connection to the team for frequent crossovers. But I mean, power levels were never the real issue, Marvel was just uncomfortable that the girlfriend character somehow became more popular than the heroes, and decided that the universe needed to be set right by any means necessary, not much more to it.

Carol went from a powerless girlfriend to one of the biggest Marvel heroes.

[PowerPlay25]

Where do the cosmic books rank on the sales chart? I honestly can't think of one I've ever read when it wasn't part of a crossover with earthly characters.

I LOVE the GG movies but I've never been tempted to read their book.

I question if Jean could keep a cosmic book at a respectable sales level.

[Portsian]

Only because Marvel would never let her keep it and all that power. In addition, writers can't seem to come up with stories that allow Jean to be that powerful and Shine. Even your fellow fans on here say that Jean as Phoenix was too powerful compared to the other team members or the foes X-Men fight! These fans also say that Jean being anywhere near the PF means only death for Jean.

Even at her power level today, whatever that is, Jean should stand way above the others. But she does not. Everyone has been raised in power and every other mutant is now an Omega level mutant. I don't see Marvel touting Jean as Uber powerful.

Part of the issue for me is the loose definition of Phoenix (Force’s) powers. Jean’s powers are vast use of telepathy and telekinesis, even the original Phoenix’s powers were super amped telekinesis (under Morrison it seemed that it was linked equally to telepathy). But the Force itself is quite ill defined. It allows for lazy writing, Mr Sinister and Apocalypse powers are quite ill defined too.

PF seems to have penchant for telepaths, but as we saw with Phoenix 5 (yuk!) it seems to grant telepathy and telekinesis, plus a load of other vague but super strong powers. That for me is where they need to go with Jean. Love her being back, but iwould like to see much more creative use of her telekinesis.

[Gray Lensman]

Part of the issue for me is the loose definition of Phoenix (Force’s) powers. Jean’s powers are vast use of telepathy and telekinesis, even the original Phoenix’s powers were super amped telekinesis (under Morrison it seemed that it was linked equally to telepathy). But the Force itself is quite ill defined. It allows for lazy writing, Mr Sinister and Apocalypse powers are quite ill defined too.

PF seems to have penchant for telepaths, but as we saw with Phoenix 5 (yuk!) it seems to grant telepathy and telekinesis, plus a load of other vague but super strong powers. That for me is where they need to go with Jean. Love her being back, but I would like to see much more creative use of her telekinesis.

Ill defined works for adversaries, but not so much for the heroes.

[PsychoEFrost]

Part of the issue for me is the loose definition of Phoenix (Force’s) powers. Jean’s powers are vast use of telepathy and telekinesis, even the original Phoenix’s powers were super amped telekinesis (under Morrison it seemed that it was linked equally to telepathy). But the Force itself is quite ill defined. It allows for lazy writing, Mr Sinister and Apocalypse powers are quite ill defined too.

PF seems to have penchant for telepaths, but as we saw with Phoenix 5 (yuk!) it seems to grant telepathy and telekinesis, plus a load of other vague but super strong powers. That for me is where they need to go with Jean. Love her being back, but iwould like to see much more creative use of her telekinesis.

We know that the abilities granted to every host of every rank are projection of cosmic fire, flight, ability to survive in hostile environment (space, deep sea), and regeneration. The P5 having TP and TK likely comes from Jean still being WPotC at the time. At the time, the Phoenix and Jean were indistinguishable from each other.

[phoenixzero23]

We know that the abilities granted to every host of every rank are projection of cosmic fire, flight, ability to survive in hostile environment (space, deep sea), and regeneration. The P5 having TP and TK likely comes from Jean still being WPotC at the time. At the time, the Phoenix and Jean were indistinguishable from each other.

is there any case of the Phoenix force granting super strenght or invulneravility?
i think i remember it happened one time but i'm not sure when/where