Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Daedra]

Jean doesn't have the Phoenix because they are still doing the "too powerful for the main character's girlfriend" thing, but hopefully if the Disney movies show Jean being powerful and confident, that'll push over to the books like all other synergy changes.

the phoenix is not the problem, see how they shelved the pink form as well? it's just that they can't keep themselves from resetting jean to her most basic den-mother form, leave the cool or edgy stuff to Wolverine or whomever is hosting the phoenix these days

[phoenixzero23]

Sketch by Fred Benes and colors by me.

Beautiful!
The here comes tomorrow costume is so underrated.

[WhitePhoenix]

The here comes tomorrow costume is so underrated.

Reminds me more of Emma Frost, than something Jean would wear.

[phoenixzero23]

Reminds me more of Emma Frost, than something Jean would wear.

Maybe, if you look at it like cloth. I look that Costume like something ethereal and powerful, like she became fire incarnate.

[Ulfhammer]

Jean doesn't have the Phoenix because they are still doing the "too powerful for the main character's girlfriend" thing, but hopefully if the Disney movies show Jean being powerful and confident, that'll push over to the books like all other synergy changes.

I can't believe the Jean fans in this thread just ignore people coming in and roasting her. Is this the Jean you'll are fans of, a character who's been a submissive for 50 years? I can't figure out what exactly people are fans of if this is actually how they see Jean. This poster makes poor little Jean sound more like a stereotypical 50's housewife than a hero that's been kicking ass since at least the 70's. She needs a movie to be seen as confident and powerful? That's absurd. For nearly all of Jean's history she's been far more powerful than Scott, Logan, Kurt, Remy or any other male member of the team, PF or not. Even when Morrison was treating her about as bad as a writer could, he never pretended she wasn't a powerhouse or needed to be propped up.

I'm a Scott fan primarily but I have more than enough respect for Jean to see that this is insulting. Why someone like me is required to come in here and defend her dignity and history is beyond me. Sure, she got conveniently killed off for over a decade and that sucks. That's just the truth. To suggest though, that Jean's history has been defined by playing second fiddle to anyone is patently false. For anyone who actually believes that, I have to ask, why are you a fan of a character who is content to be overshadowed for her entire history? The only answer I can see is that you don't know Jean's history, or you don't actually like Jean, or you see her merely as a political springboard to spout your rhetoric at her expense.

[DetectiveStrange]

I loved that Jean and Wanda were buddies in First Class - I hope they bring this friendship back

CooverJeanScarletWitch.jpg

[spirit2011]

I loved that Jean and Wanda were buddies in First Class

CooverJeanScarletWitch.jpg

It is good to see female friendship

[Can'tHexTheX]

I can't believe the Jean fans in this thread just ignore people coming in and roasting her. Is this the Jean you'll are fans of, a character who's been a submissive for 50 years? I can't figure out what exactly people are fans of if this is actually how they see Jean. This poster makes poor little Jean sound more like a stereotypical 50's housewife than a hero that's been kicking ass since at least the 70's. She needs a movie to be seen as confident and powerful? That's absurd. For nearly all of Jean's history she's been far more powerful than Scott, Logan, Kurt, Remy or any other male member of the team, PF or not. Even when Morrison was treating her about as bad as a writer could, he never pretended she wasn't a powerhouse or needed to be propped up.

I'm a Scott fan primarily but I have more than enough respect for Jean to see that this is insulting. Why someone like me is required to come in here and defend her dignity and history is beyond me. Sure, she got conveniently killed off for over a decade and that sucks. That's just the truth. To suggest though, that Jean's history has been defined by playing second fiddle to anyone is patently false. For anyone who actually believes that, I have to ask, why are you a fan of a character who is content to be overshadowed for her entire history? The only answer I can see is that you don't know Jean's history, or you don't actually like Jean, or you see her merely as a political springboard to spout your rhetoric at her expense.

1. The characters don't write themselves. Jean isn't content to be portrayed any kind of way as she has no choice in the matter.

2. Morrison treated her just fine except fridging her because she was too powerful for her boyfriend and her moving on would also be similarly un-alpha for him. When he was characterizing her it was great, as any fan of Jean Grey will tell you.


3. Yes, editors and creators are influenced by movie portrayals. Just noticing? Welcome to at least 2001, post the 1st X-Movie. It was probably happening before then. Keaton Batman is legend.

4. None of what you wrote has anything to do with the content of that post.

[PsychoEFrost]

1. The characters don't write themselves. Jean isn't content to be portrayed any kind of way as she has no choice in the matter.

2. Morrison treated her just fine except fridging her because she was too powerful for her boyfriend and her moving on would also be similarly un-alpha for him. When he was characterizing her it was great, as any fan of Jean Grey will tell you.


3. Yes, editors and creators are influenced by movie portrayals. Just noticing? Welcome to at least 2001, post the 1st X-Movie. It was probably happening before then. Keaton Batman is legend.

4. None of what you wrote has anything to do with the content of that post.

You're throwing around baseless conspiracy theories when all evidence points to the contrary. It has been explained multiple times that they de-powered her because Clairemont made her the most powerful mortal being in the entire multiverse, and that kind of ruins storytelling. It has absolutely zero with any other factors, especially to make Scott look better. All that is are Jean fans blaming Scott for Jean being gone for years, and not because members of editorial had an axe to grind.

[Can'tHexTheX]

Claremont didn't make the Phoenix unbeatable. Clearly, considering she was beaten. Obviously, right? Some peeps just don't want her powerful like that. For reasons. The people working on comics are just like the fans. They push and pull their faves and unfaves just like everyone else. The only difference is their preferences become canon.

[SpiderClops]

On second thoughts. Deleted.

[JeisonWolf]

You're throwing around baseless conspiracy theories when all evidence points to the contrary. It has been explained multiple times that they de-powered her because Clairemont made her the most powerful mortal being in the entire multiverse, and that kind of ruins storytelling. It has absolutely zero with any other factors, especially to make Scott look better. All that is are Jean fans blaming Scott for Jean being gone for years, and not because members of editorial had an axe to grind.

It is also foolish to think that it is because Jean-Phoenix is ​​stronger than Scott is because of what has become weaker to Jean or even because she was died, most of the X-men are more powerful than Scott: Icema, Storm, Psylocke ... even Wolverine according to who tells the story. Scott's power doesn't lie in his power but rather in that he is a strategist like Batman.

[PowerPlay25]

Sure, she got conveniently killed off for over a decade and that sucks. That's just the truth. To suggest though, that Jean's history has been defined by playing second fiddle to anyone is patently false. For anyone who actually believes that, I have to ask, why are you a fan of a character who is content to be overshadowed for her entire history? The only answer I can see is that you don't know Jean's history, or you don't actually like Jean, or you see her merely as a political springboard to spout your rhetoric at her expense.

I'm a Jean fan retroactively. Saw the light during All New X-Men, went back and re-read a lot of X-Men Stories and Jean Grey has been a driving force or a prominent character in so many of the franchises greatest stories. Fall of the Mutants, X-Tinction Agenda, Inferno, Fatal Attractions, The Build-up to Onslaught, AOA. I've seen her written (even in the much derided 90's) as smart, funny, childish, maternal, romantic, a cocktail of optimism with an olive of dry humor.

I think a large part of her publication history has consisted of her being very well written.

[MechaJeanix]

Morrison did not treat Jean badly. I know it is hard to be objective about his run for some because people didn't like what he did with certain characters (Jean, Scott, Emma, Xorn/Magneto, etc). But just because you didn't like certain aspects doesn't mean the book - the writing, the layered themes, the cinematic storytelling - wasn't great.

Morrison treated Jean like she should have been - a central figure, a leader (acting headmistress), smart (before Taylor had Jean be a leader and strategist Jean had a plan to fight Cassandra and save Xavier), she had become the Phoenix once again - something many of us at the time wanted, Jean was confident and strong and she had a subplot that ran throughout the entire series! Since when has Jean been treated with such importance and respect. The answer is not since Claremont.

Sure Jean died a bad death, something that was intentional and device to get her where she needed to be for the next story, and of course to separate her from Scott since everyone was excited for the Scott and Emma romance.

It will never take anything away from GM's run that he killed Jean. For one I loved her death scene. The "all I ever did was die on you" had me in the feels. I've loved all of Jean's death scenes to be honest. The scene of Scott yelling for Xorn even though he at that moment knew the truth felt very human.

I do this too often - defend this run and this era. I reread large chunks of Morrison's run and I fell in love with it all over again and especially his version of Jean Grey.

I can only hope that soon we can get an outstanding writer on the X-men that will have me be as excited as I was to read each of every issue of New X-men. We can only hope to have a writer that cares about Jean Grey and sees her as an actual character and not a wife/girlfriend to some male X-man.

[PwrdOn]

Morrison did not treat Jean badly. I know it is hard to be objective about his run for some because people didn't like what he did with certain characters (Jean, Scott, Emma, Xorn/Magneto, etc). But just because you didn't like certain aspects doesn't mean the book - the writing, the layered themes, the cinematic storytelling - wasn't great.

Morrison treated Jean like she should have been - a central figure, a leader (acting headmistress), smart (before Taylor had Jean be a leader and strategist Jean had a plan to fight Cassandra and save Xavier), she had become the Phoenix once again - something many of us at the time wanted, Jean was confident and strong and she had a subplot that ran throughout the entire series! Since when has Jean been treated with such importance and respect. The answer is not since Claremont.

Sure Jean died a bad death, something that was intentional and device to get her where she needed to be for the next story, and of course to separate her from Scott since everyone was excited for the Scott and Emma romance.

It will never take anything away from GM's run that he killed Jean. For one I loved her death scene. The "all I ever did was die on you" had me in the feels. I've loved all of Jean's death scenes to be honest. The scene of Scott yelling for Xorn even though he at that moment knew the truth felt very human.

I do this too often - defend this run and this era. I reread large chunks of Morrison's run and I fell in love with it all over again and especially his version of Jean Grey.

I can only hope that soon we can get an outstanding writer on the X-men that will have me be as excited as I was to read each of every issue of New X-men. We can only hope to have a writer that cares about Jean Grey and sees her as an actual character and not a wife/girlfriend to some male X-man.

It's a curious phenomenon that writers often do a much better job portraying characters they personally dislike, because they have so much more room to make them nuanced and layered than they do with their pet characters. Scott was Morrison's author insert during that run and yet came off mostly as a pathetic excuse for a man, whereas Jean was supposed to be the heartless wife who couldn't find time to care for her wounded husband, but actually came off as pretty cool and badass during that run precisely because she was off on her own getting **** done instead of being permanently tethered to Cyclops.