Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[PrezValentine]

Now seriously:
No one here is telling lies, I don't know why do a post like this. The character is making mistakes, people call out. These mistakes hurt Jean a lot, so yeah

That use of present tense is kind of curious, since they've been apart for 14 years and only had glimpses of the old pairing. Jean/Scott as a pairing will hopefully be buried after AoXM is over.

Also, posting that gif is kind of curious, seeing your general behavior in every thread Scott's mentioned. I'll just leave it at that, though. No need to get personal.

[spirit2011]

That use of present tense is kind of curious, since they've been apart for 14 years and only had glimpses of the old pairing. Jean/Scott as a pairing will hopefully be buried after AoXM is over.

Also, posting that gif is kind of curious, seeing your general behavior in every thread Scott's mentioned. I'll just leave it at that, though. No need to get personal.

I only believe Jott gonna get buried when I see it.

[Soulsword323]

Morrison's Jean was amazing. Crappy ending, and love triangle aside, I loved how he wrote Jean. Pushing and exploring her powers, and taking on the role of Xavier's successor was needed for the character. Out of the entire cast Morrison used, he did the best with Jean IMO, regardless if she was his favorite or not.

[Can'tHexTheX]

Jean/Scott as a pairing will hopefully be buried after AoXM is over.

No chance of that.

That divorce was ugly man, we still seeing the after effects.

What divorce?

[TheCape]

No chance of that.



What divorce?

Is just a joke that i had, about how since Morrison run Scott and Jean fanbase are like a couple going nasty divorce

[Gray Lensman]

Is just a joke that i had, about how since Morrison run Scott and Jean fanbase are like a couple going nasty divorce

Only certain people. There are plenty who loved the relationship but know it had problems, even if those problems mostly come from the inability to write anything compelling without relying on drama. Then there are those who think every problem their favorite half of the couple have ever had is 110% the fault of the other one.

[Wiccan]

I'm feeling a little dejavu. Looking at the last page I feel like I read this exact conversation before. Are y'all really just that repetitive...

[Daedra]

I'm feeling a little dejavu. Looking at the last page I feel like I read this exact conversation before. Are y'all really just that repetitive...

Apparently current stories are so interesting that all people care about is arguing about stuff happened 1 decade ago

[Gray Lensman]

Apparently current stories are so interesting that all people care about is arguing about stuff happened 1 decade ago

I think it's a decade and a half now.

[Ulfhammer]

1. The characters don't write themselves. Jean isn't content to be portrayed any kind of way as she has no choice in the matter.

That's not the point. We all get to chose who we are fans of. Same question applies. If Jean has been so poorly written, and so subservient, why are you a fan?

2. Morrison treated her just fine except fridging her because she was too powerful for her boyfriend and her moving on would also be similarly un-alpha for him. When he was characterizing her it was great, as any fan of Jean Grey will tell you.

The outcome of the run is what ended up mattering. The first 125 odd issues had little lasting impact. The final three or four arcs still resonate with current continuity. So while I agree that Morrison wrote Jean well in some regards, what lasted and what mattered didn't do anything positive for the character. His depiction of Jean, especially as it related to her relationship with Scott and her opinions on the PF were pretty radical departures from what we've seen most previous writers do. Of course this applied to Scott just as much but it's a point worth making.

3. Yes, editors and creators are influenced by movie portrayals. Just noticing? Welcome to at least 2001, post the 1st X-Movie. It was probably happening before then. Keaton Batman is legend.

Irrelevant. You argued that a movie was required for people to see Jean as powerful and confident. That's obviously not the case since many fans have seen her that way since long before even X1 came out. Those that don't share that view haven't read the comics, or have a political axe to grind and since this is a comic book forum, the perceptions of the general population when it comes to Jean are both not applicable and also unknowable unless you have scientifically collected polling data I've never seen. If you have it, let's see it.

4. None of what you wrote has anything to do with the content of that post.

Of course it does. You're suggesting Jean's character has been used entirely to shore up males around her and a movie will fix her because how could a woman possibly have been portrayed overwhelmingly positively all these years. The premise requires me to accept that Marvel's written Jean as subservient to male authority and docile and under powered throughout her depiction and that's simply not the case. I object to making a false premise to push a political agenda which is clearly what you are trying to do. You're in favor of ensuring female characters get good depictions. Great, me too. If you want to make a valid case about that, don't use a character who's already a trailblazer for exactly that and has been since the 70's. You'd be a lot more successful making that argument about Lorna or Rachel or even Dani. You know, characters that have legitimately and repeatedly paid a characterization price to serve other characters, story lines or tropes.

[spirit2011]

Only certain people. There are plenty who loved the relationship but know it had problems, even if those problems mostly come from the inability to write anything compelling without relying on drama. Then there are those who think every problem their favorite half of the couple have ever had is 110% the fault of the other one.

I really think most of problems for Jean, are caused by the relationship with Cyclops.

I'm feeling a little dejavu. Looking at the last page I feel like I read this exact conversation before. Are y'all really just that repetitive...

Just start a new conversation, instead of complaining

[Ulfhammer]

Apparently current stories are so interesting that all people care about is arguing about stuff happened 1 decade ago

It might have something to do with the comparative quality and impact of the work being produced from the 70's up til the early 00's compared to now.

[Daedra]

It might have something to do with the comparative quality and impact of the work being produced from the 70's up til the early 00's compared to now.

Indeed you are right and it kinda saddens me, they haven't even been trying to put out good stories for a while now, If it wasn't for Uncanny there wouldn't be anything of consequence worth reading in the whole line till the end of summer

[Can'tHexTheX]

Apparently current stories are so interesting that all people care about is arguing about stuff happened 1 decade ago

If you think about it, it makes sense. For reasons already stated, Morrison was the last story that had major ramifications for Jean. It's always the personal stuff that sticks and is remembered because that's what the real stories are.

[Ulfhammer]

Indeed you are right and it kinda saddens me, they haven't even been trying to put out good stories for a while now, If it wasn't for Uncanny there wouldn't be anything of consequence worth reading in the whole line till the end of summer

Totally agree. This is part of the watermark for the state of the franchise. When's the last time we saw an arc we might want to see made into a movie? Maybe decimation or messiah complex? Definitely nothing after that for me personally, and both these arcs require so much setup to make sense. I think Marvel should see it as an indictment that the movies draw all their story lines from 30 or 40 year old material. That's a fact I challenged both Rosenberg and JDW about. They should be creating an environment where there's freedom to take those kinds of risks. It won't always work out but editorial needs to be there to select the best talent possible, and creators need to be given the freedom and uninterrupted duration to get to the point where more of these great stories can be written. Claremont was talented. There's not doubt about that. There are plenty of talented writers though. Until Marvel hires them and unshackles them, we won't get anywhere near the quality we've had decades past.

I'd love to see Fall of the mutants through the outback era done. Unfortunately it requires some setup for audiences to care about the Morlocks or Maddie\Jubilee\Yana\The New Mutants etc, but that era running concurrently with X-Factor was just such a great time for me as a reader I'd love to see it adapted. It's probably more likely to turn up in TV series but it's big enough and weird enough to justify the big screen I think.