Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[WallStreeter]

I'd there really a point to Telepaths studying in school, when they can absorb knowledge and experience from people around them.

Look at Prodigy (without his mental blocks)
Jean has a photographic memory and can store memories in her brain. She has gotten knowledge of anatomy from beast and black panther, learnt how to fly and fight king fu, the Xmen have been taught new languages with telepathy.

Seems like a cop out, but Xavier could have just planted the knowledge and experience of Engineering, medicine, architecture and Accounting in the O5s brains and sent them to take professional courses (just make everyone at the University believe that the o5 have been attending the school for four years).

Telepaths are OP, the applications of what they do are outstanding. Imagine Jean and Charles having weekly visits at mental asylums and psychiatric hospitals, helping people work through their problems.

Oh, I completely agree with you. However when she deals with the human world, perhaps Jean wants people to recognize her expertise. So with the instant knowledge she can acquire, plus the years of experience she has in psychic matters, she honestly could easily have her PhD. She could implant in people's minds she attended whatever universities for whatever period of time for her BA and MA, and then she could probably write her dissertation for the PhD overnight. Bingo!

[Havok83]

Cecilia Reyes is a MD. Beast is regarded as a leading scientific expert and referred to Dr. McCoy, so clearly he has a PhD.

Xavier is a professor, so he has a PhD.

Which is why I said it had to do with sexism in the past, where they didn't want to portray a woman has highly educated and had Jean model. That won't happen again in the current era, which has a tendency to draw Jean as more of an ordinary, attractive woman as opposed to an 80s supermodel.

It has nothing to do with sexism. Most people do not get a PhD. That is very rare so it makes sense that only 2 X characters might have one. Jean doesnt need one. She's never been portrayed as someone into research. Not to mention, Im not sure when she'd even have had time to get one. Unlike other characters whom have taken a hiatus from superheroing, she unfortunately died. The only real break she ever had was when she was Tending to Scott's wounds post OZT.

As far as Jean's asethics, I really dont see a difference in how she is drawn now compared to her past appearances. She's still drop dead gorgeous with a perfect body like a super model

[5cents]

Speaking of death, can Jean be summited into the Guinness Book Records for longest death by an A-List (major) female x-man character? Not sure if they even do this lol

[Havok83]

Speaking of death, can Jean be summited into the Guinness Book Records for longest death by an A-List (major) female x-man character? Not sure if they even do this lol

Illyana might have her beat depending on how you look at it.

[WallStreeter]

It has nothing to do with sexism. Most people do not get a PhD. That is very rare so it makes sense that only 2 X characters might have one. Jean doesnt need one. She's never been portrayed as someone into research. Not to mention, Im not sure when she'd even have had time to get one. Unlike other characters whom have taken a hiatus from superheroing, she unfortunately died. The only real break she ever had was when she was Tending to Scott's wounds post OZT.

As far as Jean's asethics, I really dont see a difference in how she is drawn now compared to her past appearances. She's still drop dead gorgeous with a perfect body like a super model

She looks a lot more plain, actually.

It's not an issue that most people don't get a PhD. It's that in Marvel, for many years the top experts where ALL MALE, and pretty much WHITE MALE at that.

Top psychic expert (Xavier), top magical person (Dr. Strange), best scientists (Richards, Pym, Stark, Beast). I suppose you could throw Panther and Forge in there ,but that still left no women!

Today you do have Moon Girl for scientific genius (young Black woman) and Shuri has this role in the Avengers movies now (Scientific genius).

Notice how two male characters somehow found the time despite the craziest of being a mutant to getting their doctorates (Beast and Xavier) while a woman wasn't portrayed as doing that.

I will give the comics this, in recent years Jean and Emma are psychic experts to rival Xavier, and with Xavier recently kept out of the picture he is not even a factor.

And don't think Marvel isn't aware of this discrepency, which is why we have the changes we had recently.

[Devaishwarya]

It has nothing to do with sexism. Most people do not get a PhD. That is very rare so it makes sense that only 2 X characters might have one. Jean doesnt need one. She's never been portrayed as someone into research. Not to mention, Im not sure when she'd even have had time to get one. Unlike other characters whom have taken a hiatus from superheroing, she unfortunately died. The only real break she ever had was when she was Tending to Scott's wounds post OZT.

As far as Jean's asethics, I really dont see a difference in how she is drawn now compared to her past appearances. She's still drop dead gorgeous with a perfect body like a super model

I with you on this one, Havok83
I can understand characters like Xavier, Cecilia having degrees and Phd's etc. because they had actual careers apart from superheroing, even Beast.
Some form of tertiary-level education of course (as with the New Mutants) but anything further seems irrelevant to the characters and the overall storytelling.

And yes, superheroes and villains, male and female, are usually drawn drop-dead gorgeous and sexy...unless character 'briefs" are pointedly stated otherwise.
The difference is (and this is where the sexism issue may lie) now writers aren't making it a point to actively state in-panel just how beauty-full and attractive female superheroes are as they prolifically did back in the earlies.

[Havok83]

She looks a lot more plain, actually.

It's not an issue that most people don't get a PhD. It's that in Marvel, for many years the top experts where ALL MALE, and pretty much WHITE MALE at that.

Top psychic expert (Xavier), top magical person (Dr. Strange), best scientists (Richards, Pym, Stark, Beast). I suppose you could throw Panther and Forge in there ,but that still left no women!

Today you do have Moon Girl for scientific genius (young Black woman) and Shuri has this role in the Avengers movies now (Scientific genius).

Notice how two male characters somehow found the time despite the craziest of being a mutant to getting their doctorates (Beast and Xavier) while a woman wasn't portrayed as doing that.

I will give the comics this, in recent years Jean and Emma are psychic experts to rival Xavier, and with Xavier recently kept out of the picture he is not even a factor.

And don't think Marvel isn't aware of this discrepency, which is why we have the changes we had recently.

I can see your point in that regards but to be fair Dr. Moira McTaggeret was the X-men's top genetic expert back in the 70s

Xavier got his doctorate before the X-Men #1. He wasnt crazy busy. Beast has always been super intelligent and researched focus going back to the 60s series. I believe his degree occurred sometime during the X-men's publication hiatus prior to him leaving the team. Doesnt seem too odd to me

[Thirteen]

Cecilia Reyes is a MD. Beast is regarded as a leading scientific expert and referred to Dr. McCoy, so clearly he has a PhD.

Xavier is a professor, so he has a PhD.

Which is why I said it had to do with sexism in the past, where they didn't want to portray a woman has highly educated and had Jean model. That won't happen again in the current era, which has a tendency to draw Jean as more of an ordinary, attractive woman as opposed to an 80s supermodel.

In this thread of discussion, re: Jean would never be portrayed as a career model in the current era, its of note that Famke Jansen portrayed "Dr. Jean Grey" in X1 (to much fanboy aghast at the time).



And then theres this...

[Daedra]

And then theres this...

eeeew that Jean Grey is just.... not for me

[mogwen]

Fierce Jean by Frisano (her fight with Magneto):
05b3aea18e6e9af6be8a83eb1a4dbe83.jpg

I like how she's looking like in a trance, the sense of pleasure the Phoenix is giving her.

[Phoenixx9]

Fierce Jean by Frisano (her fight with Magneto):
05b3aea18e6e9af6be8a83eb1a4dbe83.jpg

I like how she's looking like in a trance, the sense of pleasure the Phoenix is giving her.

Beautiful! Powerful Jean Grey Phoenix!

Yeah, that's right, cower, Magneto!

[mogwen]

Beautiful! Powerful Jean Grey Phoenix!

Yeah, that's right, cower, Magneto!

Theses are the covers I grew up with! This one is good too!
972631260.jpg

[5cents]

Illyana might have her beat depending on how you look at it.

Wasn’t she a back ground character (minor) when she died?

[Askani's Flame]

Wasn’t she a back ground character (minor) when she died?

I don't know that you would call her 'A-list' or background when she died. Storm was the iconic female character at that point, with Kitty in second (albeit out of the franchise). Illyana was a major character and player in New Mutants when she died. It would be hard to judge roles then by today's standards. So depending on the argument it's either Jean or Illyana.

[Havok83]

Wasn’t she a back ground character (minor) when she died?

I don't know that you would call her 'A-list' or background when she died. Storm was the iconic female character at that point, with Kitty in second (albeit out of the franchise). Illyana was a major character and player in New Mutants when she died. It would be hard to judge roles then by today's standards. So depending on the argument it's either Jean or Illyana.

Illyana is an interesting case depending on what you consider her death to be. Some might consider it Inferno (1989) when her older teen self sacrificed self to save everyone or UXM 303 (1993) when the child died of the Legacy virus. She was a supporting character by then. That version was never brought back though but we did get a version of the teen Yana in 2007's Quest for Magik storyline. She isnt even the original Magik but is generally accepted as such. Thats roughly 14-18 years for her

Jean of course died in 2004's Planet X and was resurrected in 2018's Phoenix Resurrection. However she technically was brought back in 2012's All New X-men. Even if that wasnt known at the time, the ramifications of Extemination make it so that it was in fact our Jean and the one around today. There was an 8-14 year gap depending on what you accept