Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[JeisonWolf]

More like think nothing is wrong with him. Logan/Jean was harmless
Maybe they are thinking mostly about movies, that was harmful but here is a comics forum not a movie forum.
I don't see not even a bit of dislike for Scemma, but logan/jean is the freaking end of the world

The problem, I think and the reason why it is often mentioned that Jogan is toxic is for people who say it is harmless and it was not bad just because Jean never got to sleep with Logan.
Almost everyone recognizes that Scemma was toxic and pure lust, that has parallels with Jogan that Emma really loved Scott, while while Scott could love her it was never as much as Jean, if not, he would not have broken up with her the way that did him. The same with Jogan, Logan loves Jean, Jean can get to love him but it can hardly be a real love like the one she has for Scott.
Certainly another reason why Jogan is often mentioned is that unlike Scemma Jogan has been strongly represented in the media, even assuming that Jean can get to love Logan more than Scott, Scemma on the other hand has not had this type of representation, in WaTX what Scott may have felt for Emma was completely eclipsed by the love he had for Jean.

Scott never stopped loving Jean, maybe some writers wrote him at certain times wrong to make Scemma look better, but in the end we know that Scott never forgot her, he always loved her and Emma knew it but still followed him.

Scott did bad things, that nobody is going to deny, but Jean was not a perfect wife either, "Saint Jean" is usually used by fans who want to ignore all the mistakes of her and the haters who hate her. Besides maybe it is not canon, but in many AU Jean cheats on Scott with Logan, things like these have created the false idea that Jean loved Logan as much or even more than Scott, so maybe it never really happened in the canon but Jogan is much better known than Scemma.

The world is never black and white (good and bad) there are only grays.

[phoenixzero23]

Jean and scott have never been perfect but they don't have to be. What i love about the connection is that they were made for each other, even after everything has been done to break it they are alway very important to each other, even if their relationship changes all the time. They are part of each other like no other character will ever be

[spirit2011]

The problem, I think and the reason why it is often mentioned that Jogan is toxic is for people who say it is harmless and it was not bad just because Jean never got to sleep with Logan.
Almost everyone recognizes that Scemma was toxic and pure lust, that has parallels with Jogan that Emma really loved Scott, while while Scott could love her it was never as much as Jean, if not, he would not have broken up with her the way that did him. The same with Jogan, Logan loves Jean, Jean can get to love him but it can hardly be a real love like the one she has for Scott.
Certainly another reason why Jogan is often mentioned is that unlike Scemma Jogan has been strongly represented in the media, even assuming that Jean can get to love Logan more than Scott, Scemma on the other hand has not had this type of representation, in WaTX what Scott may have felt for Emma was completely eclipsed by the love he had for Jean.

Look I see people mentioning that Scemma started badly and on the same breath how they like the couple.
Only Logan/Jean get a lot more scrunity and hate, even if it never happened.

Other media and AUS shouldn't come to discussion, people just love to hate on Jogan for nothing.

Scott never stopped loving Jean, maybe some writers wrote him at certain times wrong to make Scemma look better, but in the end we know that Scott never forgot her, he always loved her and Emma knew it but still followed him.

On endsong and whedon run is clear that Scott not longer love Jean and loves Emma. IDK why writers resolve to backpedal on that later. It made Scott look like he never sure who he is loving.

Scott did bad things, that nobody is going to deny, but Jean was not a perfect wife either, "Saint Jean" is usually used by fans who want to ignore all the mistakes of her and the haters who hate her. Besides maybe it is not canon, but in many AU Jean cheats on Scott with Logan, things like these have created the false idea that Jean loved Logan as much or even more than Scott, so maybe it never really happened in the canon but Jogan is much better known than Scemma.

The world is never black and white (good and bad) there are only grays.

there isn't any false idea that Jean cheated on Logan, it never happened and readers know this very well. Just a way to badmouth Jean for nothing.
Logan/Jean is pretty old, of course there is more on media. Too bad seems like people can't deal with it

Jean isn't perfect, but it is Scott that messed up BIG

[PsychoEFrost]

Jean isn't perfect, but it is Scott that messed up BIG

Luckily, Jean doesn't seem nearly as bothered by it as you do. At some point, you're going to have to find something else to do with your hate.

[spirit2011]

Luckily, Jean doesn't seem nearly as bothered by it as you do. At some point, you're going to have to find something else to do with your hate.

sure hate is take care, so a character I like won't take bench for 14 years.

I bet that fans will hate that jean got with Bishop and won't accept her again with Scott. That will be fun

[PsychoEFrost]

sure hate is take care, so a character I like won't take bench for 14 years.

I bet that fans will hate that jean got with Bishop and won't accept her again with Scott. That will be fun

Maybe she has a thing for guys that try and murder Xavier. But it's alright with Bishop because he's not white.

[TheDeadSpace]

sure hate is take care, so a character I like won't take bench for 14 years.

I bet that fans will hate that jean got with Bishop and won't accept her again with Scott. That will be fun

To be fair, if anything, Jean hooking up with Bishop makes her more like Scott. Guess they really are just two peas in a pod.

Also, Jean is entirely different from Logan. For a relationship to genuinely work, one of them needs to fundamentally change as a character. Scott and Jean broke up due to outside factors. Logan and Jean would break up on their own. Logan himself said it wouldn't work.

[phoenixzero23]

Scott did mess up, i can't deny it.

I don't hate jogan. The truth is that some people will just hate any ship, we all have different tastes. No ship is universally liked, specially because Marvel makes everything possible to hurt and involve as many characters and fans as posible. For example there are people who like Rogue and Gambit but can't help to hate magneto. Even though most Magneto fans don't care about rogue, gambit or their relationship. There is even people who don't care at all about these characters and still hate the relationships.

Also as if the fans of whatever character or ship Jean is paired aren't going to crap hard on Scott and Logan. X-men fans are really immature but shipping in general sucks. If for example Cyclops ends with Emma and hooks up with someone else scemma fans won't like it or will even hate the character/relationship just like the jott fans before them, it doesn't matter if the next ship is good. it's just how the fandom works.

[PwrdOn]

Whatever legitimate reasons there are to hate the Jean/Logan pairing, it seems like the people who complain about it the loudest are invariably all diehard Cyclops stans, many Marvel writers and editors included, who don't like how it makes their boy look weak to get cuckolded. Whenever Wolverine was brought up, you always got the sense that some people just wanted Jean to forever remain sole property of Scott, even while he was in a relationship with Emma, who in case you didn't know, stands by her man and doesn't cut him down like that ginger hussy.

[TheCape]

To be fair, if anything, Jean hooking up with Bishop makes her more like Scott. Guess they really are just two peas in a pod.

Also, Jean is entirely different from Logan. For a relationship to genuinely work, one of them needs to fundamentally change as a character. Scott and Jean broke up due to outside factors. Logan and Jean would break up on their own. Logan himself said it wouldn't work.

Honestly i wouldn't mind Jogan so much if i didn't think that makes Logan come across badly no matter the situation.

Best case scenario, he looks rather pathetic for being still in love with a woman that just doesn't feel the same way, no man with any self respect would carry a torch for this long.

Worst case, he is an stalkerish creep that doesn't understand the fact that is just not going to happen. That's why i was glad when Hama and Nicieza buried that plot. I did enjoy the couple in AoA but those were another circumstances and frankly i don't trust Marvel in handling then with any sort of tact.

[TheDeadSpace]

Honestly i wouldn't mind Jogan so much if i didn't think that makes Logan come across badly no matter the situation.

Best case scenario, he looks rather pathetic for being still in love with a woman that just doesn't feel the same way, no man with any self respect would carry a torch for this long.

Worst case, he is an stalkerish creep that doesn't understand the fact that is just not going to happen. That's why i was glad when Hama and Nicieza buried that plot. I did enjoy the couple in AoA but those were another circumstances and frankly i don't trust Marvel in handling then with any sort of tact.

Well, the triangle is more damaging than helpful to the three of them. Wolverine and Scott are my two favorite X-men but the triangle damages their friendship from time to time.

Also, with all these assumptions, I might as well just change my avatar at this rate...

[DarkMagnus]

hey im into Jogan if Scemma lives at the same time and the four are in a team with a healthy relationship.

Even if they start to develop a friendship between Emma and Jean laughing at they boys douchebagery.

[TheCape]

Well, the triangle is more damaging than helpful to the three of them. Wolverine and Scott are my two favorite X-men but the triangle damages their friendship from time to time.

Also, with all these assumptions, I might as well just change my avatar at this rate...

Originally it wasn't that bad, it was clear that Jean and Scott were in love and they would never abandon each other and a couple of arcs before the Phoenix Saga Logan started a serious relationship with Mariko so it was all good, but after all that ordeal with Maddie... well you know the rest. To be honest i don't see Scott and Logan as friends, more like teammates that respect each other in the work, but don't pay much attention to the other outside of it.

Well, maybe, besides there are better Cyclops image lol.

[PhoenixStudies]

My prediction (and I'm always wrong) is that Jean's new codename will be Marvelous in Age of X-Man and that is why that one book is called Marvelous X-Men.

At the very least we know that Jean will be in a new version of the green Marvel Girl dress.

Anyways here are some more pics from the first green mini dress days...

[phoenixzero23]

I love the Marvel Girl mask