Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[spirit2011]

He has his personal view of the X-men but he doesnt let that dictate the line or micromanage the writers. I generally like him but thus far his stint has been lackluster as its been filler till Hickman arrives. I wish he had never greenlit AoX (or at least executed it differently) and found a way to make the line feel meaningful in the 8 months leading into Hickman

That seems to be more on Hickman. I don't think JDW wanted to do anything important before Hickman run, that is why we get filler AOX and a very easy to retcon Uncanny

JDW seems to let writers pitch stuff it wouldn't fit with his preferences, which is the most important thing. The problem is that his views about the X-men seem too black and white and influenced by nostalgia to work- he seems the type of editor that would prefer much more something like X-men: Gold than anything that pushes the envelope, an illusion of change type of guy.

I think this is time for a more heroic x-men.Time to right the ship a bit before it sinks;
Gold had nothing to do with JDW, he knows when take risks

I'm neutral to positive about JDW. He sounds like a cool guy most of the time, though sometimes he annoys me. I don't think he has any strong feelings about Jean anyway...

I think he likes her a lot more than Hickman

[Omega Alpha]

I think this is time for a more heroic x-men.Time to right the ship a bit before it sinks;
Gold had nothing to do with JDW, he knows when take risksn

The X-men's ship has sank long ago, that's why they're bringing Hickman. And Gold (which, yes, I know JDW was not involved at all) was supposed to be that return and look how well that went.

So, when do Pox abd Hox start? Is Uncanny on hiatus until they finish? Ive not got any recent AU stuff, but am assuming its leading into Hoxy Poxy?

1) Late July 2) After they start, all the X-books are; 3) The AoX stuff will be ignored, since Hickman begun writing before AoX.

[spirit2011]

The X-men's ship has sank long ago, that's why they're bringing Hickman. And Gold (which, yes, I know JDW was not involved at all) was supposed to be that return and look how well that went.

Since when Guggemheim writing something is expected to be good?

[Omega Alpha]

Since when Guggemheim writing something is expected to be good?

That's what Marvel expected, which is why they brought him. Why did they think that would work, I have no clue.

[phoenixzero23]

I like JDW and i like the heroes should be heroes thing. I'm so sick of antiheroes and villains. It is worse when a hero turns into those edgelords like they did with Xavier and Cyclops.
that is not deep or complex, it is cheap. True heroism is inspiring and entertaining.
The X-men have lived through so much angst and drama that sometimes people forget they ae superheroes

[spirit2011]

That's what Marvel expected, which is why they brought him. Why did they think that would work, I have no clue.

Marvel knew he was awful. Why he got the book is a mistery tome

[phoenixzero23]

Also Jean appeared on grand design this week. It wasn't a huge role but she was there.

[Omega Alpha]

I like JDW and i like the heroes should be heroes thing. I'm so sick of antiheroes and villains. It is worse when a hero turns into those edgelords like they did with Xavier and Cyclops.
that is not deep or complex, it is cheap. True heroism is inspiring and entertaining.
The X-men have lived through so much angst and drama that sometimes people forget they ae superheroes

But the X-men, at their best, are not superheroes, or at least not only that. They're activists trying to change the world, and also teachers of the next generation, and also representatives of the mutant race, and also a makeshift family. Being superheroes is only a part of it

[phoenixzero23]

But the X-men, at their best, are not superheroes, or at least not only that. They're activists trying to change the world, and also teachers of the next generation, and also representatives of the mutant race, and also a makeshift family. Being superheroes is only a part of it

They aren't terrorist or villains either.

[Omega Alpha]

They aren't terrorist or villains either.

And they were never in Utopia or during Bendis' run, no matter how much Marvel will try to tell us otherwise, because they can't admit they made the Avengers look like dicks.

[spirit2011]

But the X-men, at their best, are not superheroes, or at least not only that. They're activists trying to change the world, and also teachers of the next generation, and also representatives of the mutant race, and also a makeshift family. Being superheroes is only a part of it

being teachers wasn't a big part before Morrison, but being heroes is a big part

[jmc247]

But the X-men, at their best, are not superheroes, or at least not only that. They're activists trying to change the world, and also teachers of the next generation, and also representatives of the mutant race, and also a makeshift family. Being superheroes is only a part of it

Agreed, but I will say the X-Men itself is also best factionalized between those who hold to the highest standards of super hero morality and those who are willing to get their hands dirty.

That allows for a debate inside the X-Men between factions. That provides better spice to the X-Men then love triangles, because when you have a team with the same POV and moral lines together all that is left by in large is fighting the designated villain and romantic soap.

[Omega Alpha]

Agreed, but I will say the X-Men itself is also best factionalized between those who hold to the highest standards of super hero morality and those who are willing to get their hands dirty.

That allows for a debate inside the X-Men between factions. That provides better spice to the X-Men then love triangles, because when you have a team with the same POV and moral lines together all that is left by in large is fighting the designated villain and romantic soap.

Exactly. And this is why this approach by JDW that "all the X-men have to be heroes" and that characters like Emma should be away from the X-men is UTTERLY stupid. If all the X-men think the same way and have the same views on morality, there's no conflict but romantic or artificial non-sense.

And the reason it's nostalgia influenced because the X-men under Claremont were not that way- you had Wolverine always being an anti-hero and a killer, Storm and Psylocke doing very shady stuff (not to mention Charles), many of the X-men and X-factor members killing in the Mutant Massacre, the X-men allowing the world to think they have been killed (a trick Xavier did himself in the 60's), etc.

[phoenixzero23]

on the contrary, we come from a decade or more of everything being morally ambiguous, it produces the same cheap drama.

Look at the justice league, they are all heroes and they have so many epic stories. there are a lot of interesting things to do without everything being derailed on cheap moral debates that go nowhere because at the end of the day the x-men end up doing the right/heroic thing anyway.

[spirit2011]

on the contrary, we come from a decade or more of everything being morally ambiguous, it produces the same cheap drama.

Look at the justice league, they are all heroes and they have so many epic stories. there are a lot of interesting things to do without everything being derailed on cheap moral debates that go nowhere because at the end of the day the x-men end up doing the right/heroic thing anyway.

X-men were never like Justice League. ok maybe the O5 on the silver age.

X-men are really more popular by being more morally complex, but i think there is enough space for being heroic.
Or then better get Jean out