Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Decoy]

So, you think Hickman or the Invaders have Jean confront Namor eventually......you know, after this AU stuff is done? Because Cap, Winter Soldier, Black Panther and Torch have had no luck so far.....and I doubt the FF would fare much better......perhaps former teammates.......

[spirit2011]

So, you think Hickman or the Invaders have Jean confront Namor eventually......you know, after this AU stuff is done? Because Cap, Winter Soldier, Black Panther and Torch have had no luck so far.....and I doubt the FF would fare much better......perhaps former teammates.......

They will ignore x-men red, and probably emma will have to fix Namor

[bishopcruz]

I liked seeing Jean is street clothes in X-men Red as well.

Though I think I get where Hickman is coming from. Mutants should have mutant names, and where mutant clothes. I loved in Morrison's run where he began to show us mutant subcultures. We didn't have enough of that before mutants became near extinct.

I don't think mutant culture should be shown as superior to any other culture but I think it would be cool to examine various elements of mutant culture (the dress, the codenames, rituals, faith, etc.).

It's one of the reasons I fell in love with Morrison's run I'd love it to go further. It's something that I think would be fascinating to explore with X-men, the idea of "What do you when you have gotten just about everything you wanted?"

[Graphicisnovel]

It's one of the reasons I fell in love with Morrison's run I'd love it to go further. It's something that I think would be fascinating to explore with X-men, the idea of "What do you when you have gotten just about everything you wanted?"

You just said such a beautiful thing, AND you hit on something that has great potential and could even be where we're headed.

[phoenixzero23]

Usually when someone has what it wanted moves to other thing, finds more problems.

If mutants didn't have problems with humans or extinction they would fight themselves.

[Omega Alpha]

Usually when someone has what it wanted moves to other thing, finds more problems.

If mutants didn't have problems with humans or extinction they would fight themselves.

They often do anyway.

[PsychoEFrost]

Usually when someone has what it wanted moves to other thing, finds more problems.

If mutants didn't have problems with humans or extinction they would fight themselves.

Not necessarily true. I can see an X-story set where the response towards mutants is closer to the current real world support for trans rights (40% for, 25% against 35% no opinion, give or take). But they still have things to deal with. Attacks by increasingly marginalized and therefore unhinged mutantphobic humans. Legislation set to hurt their rights. Mutants mucking it up for everyone by using their powers for selfish reasons. The usual interstellar culprits like The Brood or the Shi'Ar. It can certainly work.

[The tall man]

Usually when someone has what it wanted moves to other thing, finds more problems.

If mutants didn't have problems with humans or extinction they would fight themselves.

Yup! Mutants are just like regular people in that they have different ideals, morals, priorities, goals, worldviews and general outlook on life. And just like regular people fight amongst themselves over a variety of issues from minor to major so too would mutants. Contrary to what some like to think mutants are not a monolith block or hivemind, simply because two people develop mutant abilities doesn't mean that they will agree on anything. Mutants can still be divided by race/color, religion, gender, social status or anything else. Not every mutant wants to follow Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, Emma or some other self professed mutant leader. That's partly why I didn't bye the Uncanny #600 issue, no one individual can unite an entire group, there will always be dissenters and opposing ideologies. If mutants got their own world or took over this one there still be conflict because at the end of the day mutants are humans and humans are a selfish and self destructive species.

[Omega Alpha]

. That's partly why I didn't bye the Uncanny #600 issue, no one individual can unite an entire group, there will always be dissenters and opposing ideologies.

But Scott didn't unite every mutant necessarily, just every X-man and a whole lot of the others. And just for a march.

[bishopcruz]

But the idea would be more, Mutants say get legislation passed that makes them fully legal under the law, makes discrimination illegal, forces integration, say a full Civil rights bill. Public support is now greatly in their favor. Or make it more like current gay rights where the battle has largely been won. Without the common enemy or common goal to unite behind, where do they go from there. The battle has been won so to speak, so now what? What happens to mutant leaders whose personal power was predicated on the group being oppressed? How do they deal with the oppression that is now below the surface, and not out in the open? Do those who try to integrate with regular society lose their mutant cred? Do anti mutant groups now pushed even further to the fringe become even mroe dangerous? Does fighting them simply give them more publicity? There is a lot that can come from this.

[mogwen]

One thing we can all agree, I hope, is that this story of mutants always hated and hunted has to evolve. And that's one of the themes of X-Men: evolution, wether it is D.N.A or society.
For me, the X-Men have lost so much that it's difficult to still care, you end up growing desensitized.
Right now they need hope and a little acceptance would be great. Both in the society and in the superheroes community.
And that's great that this discussion happens on the Jean Grey thread, she's for me the symbol of empathy and would be a great herald for this new era.

[spirit2011]

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Jean on X-men Grand design

[Omega Alpha]

One thing we can all agree, I hope, is that this story of mutants always hated and hunted has to evolve.

That was what Morrison was doing..And then M-Day happened.

[PwrdOn]

Exploring the conflicts between different mutant factions would be a lot more interesting than continuing to milk the mutants vs. humans angle, because if anything mutant society is far more stratified and hierarchical than anything we see in the real world. There has always been this implicit hierarchy at play where the leaders are inevitably the pretty mutants who could easily pass in human society, whereas those with disfiguring and debilitating mutations suffer the brunt of the oppression but are similarly looked down upon by their fellow mutants. It just so happens that someone like Jean is kind and empathetic, but were she a cruel bitch she would still have still be groomed for a leadership role because she fits the image of what a Homo superior should be, whereas the likes of Glob Herman just don't.

[Omega Alpha]

Exploring the conflicts between different mutant factions would be a lot more interesting than continuing to milk the mutants vs. humans angle, because if anything mutant society is far more stratified and hierarchical than anything we see in the real world. There has always been this implicit hierarchy at play where the leaders are inevitably the pretty mutants who could easily pass in human society, whereas those with disfiguring and debilitating mutations suffer the brunt of the oppression but are similarly looked down upon by their fellow mutants. It just so happens that someone like Jean is kind and empathetic, but were she a cruel bitch she would still have still be groomed for a leadership role because she fits the image of what a Homo superior should be, whereas the likes of Glob Herman just don't.

Yeah, I don't know if the pretty hierarchy work that much if you have people like Apocalypse, Beast and Nightcrawler being so influent. Although the idea that even other mutants would look down on the less powerful ones would be interesting.