Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Wiccan]

Joshua Carrara posted this:
https://twitter.com/joshuacassara/st...50655632392192

I hope he had to start over cause they're changing her costume. But I like his Jean, looks like Larraz's Jean to me!

[Snoop Dogg]

it physically hurt me to watch him kill that

[Conor]

it physically hurt me to watch him kill that

Same haha but I think this is a pretty good indication that they’re changing her costume to something else in her repertoire or hopefully, something completely brand new, fingers crossed she gets a complete redesign or at least go back to something that makes more sense for her like the X-Men Red costume. Would be great to see her in green Phoenix costume again but I won’t hold out hope.

[Peanutsinspace]

If Jean hadn't died, the Dark Phoenix Saga wouldn't have had the impact it had. Still her death was a bad move, a huge mistake that only gave us the dumb coccon retcon, the unnecessary Maddie (which died anyway, she only messed up things and screw a lot without need), it started the trend of killing Jean. Without her death at that moment Jean would probably have an stable and traditional family.

Some huge consecuences came from Shooter, his influence will affect these characters until the day Marvel goes bankrupt, not sure if for the best.

Had Shooter not insisted Jean die, her life afterward would have been very different. Let's all thank whatever heavenly host that John Byrne didn't get his way. Here's his original idea for Jean had she survived the DPS:

“I wanted to depower her totally,” Byrne continued. “Chris had said that she manifested her power when she was about ten, so I had said that the ideal thing would be to have had Xavier turn her brain back, basically, till she was nine years old. Then, in the scenario that I had envisioned, the Phoenix, still an evil force, would have been kind of like this Bogey-Man that would pop out every once in a while.”

“This is a scene that I pictured in my mind: Jean, now essentially retarded and living with her parents is taken by her parents into town to see, just to date ourselves, “The Cat From Outer Space” was the movie I kept thinking of. Two or three punks see her wandering by herself while her parents are buying the tickets and escort her into an alleyway. There’s a brief scuffle and from the alley comes this horrendous flash which is the Phoenix out loose again. And we have to depower her again. So Phoenix would pop out as a sort of “Jekyll and Hyde” thing.”







Claremont's idea was:

"And then we have a five-page sequence in which Jean essentially has her psionic abilities removed down to a molecular level, the reason being, Lilandra says, that they don’t want to destroy Jean, partly because they don’t know what releationship she has to the M’Krann crystal. They believe they can safely strip her power; they don’t know if they should kill her, so they won’t. And she doesn’t deserve to be killed. So her power is removed molecule by molecule. The galaxy’s greatest telepaths sit there and they literally take Jean apart molecule by molecule, take out all of the molecules that relate to her psionic ability and put her back together again, leaving her a normal human being.”

“What I wanted to do then was spend about the next eight issues or so having Jean come to terms with the fact that she can no longer move things by thought, that she is locked inside of her head for the first time in her adult life. At the same time she has the memory that she had godlike powers, and more importantly, what she did with them.”

“I had a rough idea of where I wanted to take it, which was over the next year having her deal with what happened, with what she did,” Claremont revealed in Phoenix: The Untold Story. “From my point of view, I saw it as coming to terms with the fact that she killed five billion people – that she committed a crime for which she can never atone, and yet she’s still alive. The easy way out would be just to jump off a cliff, but she can’t. She has to somehow put things right with herself, within herself.”

“The ultimate end of it, leading up to issue #150 (in 1981), would be that Magneto, having found out about this, would come in, kidnapping her, and offering her the power again on the false assumption that he could control her. And the X-Men would come to her rescue. They’d be battling Magneto on one section of the Asteroid M, and she’d be in a room all by herself with Phoenix, the effect, the power, coming back, forced to make the choice (of a lifetime).”

“She denies it,” Claremont answered in The X-Men Companion. “She says “No! Get thee from me, Phoenix!” And the idea is, it is better to be human than it is to be a wrathful goddess.”

“In X-Men #137 (1980) Jean is the victim. She is not a protagonist; she is acted upon; she does not act in her own behalf. In X-Men #150 (1981) she is the hero. She single-handedly all by herself, and no one knows it, saves the universe again. It’s the greatest sacrifice that has ever been made...Essentially all the stuff the Watcher said at the end of (the published version of) X-Men #137 would have been said at the end of X-Men #150 but not because she killed herself, but because she denied this infinite power.”
http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...ad-to-die.html

[CuteNimrod]

Damm, **** John Byrne

[spirit2011]

Joshua Carrara posted this:
https://twitter.com/joshuacassara/st...50655632392192

I hope he had to start over cause they're changing her costume. But I like his Jean, looks like Larraz's Jean to me!

we won't get previews so soon of x-force, but if it is because they are changing Jean costume it is alright for me.

Cassara art is pretty good

Now I think thi smight be just a panel, he posted the sketch 10 hours earlier

[spirit2011]

Had Shooter not insisted Jean die, her life afterward would have been very different. Let's all thank whatever heavenly host that John Byrne didn't get his way. Here's his original idea for Jean had she survived the DPS:

“I wanted to depower her totally,” Byrne continued. “Chris had said that she manifested her power when she was about ten, so I had said that the ideal thing would be to have had Xavier turn her brain back, basically, till she was nine years old. Then, in the scenario that I had envisioned, the Phoenix, still an evil force, would have been kind of like this Bogey-Man that would pop out every once in a while.”

“This is a scene that I pictured in my mind: Jean, now essentially retarded and living with her parents is taken by her parents into town to see, just to date ourselves, “The Cat From Outer Space” was the movie I kept thinking of. Two or three punks see her wandering by herself while her parents are buying the tickets and escort her into an alleyway. There’s a brief scuffle and from the alley comes this horrendous flash which is the Phoenix out loose again. And we have to depower her again. So Phoenix would pop out as a sort of “Jekyll and Hyde” thing.”







Claremont's idea was:

"And then we have a five-page sequence in which Jean essentially has her psionic abilities removed down to a molecular level, the reason being, Lilandra says, that they don’t want to destroy Jean, partly because they don’t know what releationship she has to the M’Krann crystal. They believe they can safely strip her power; they don’t know if they should kill her, so they won’t. And she doesn’t deserve to be killed. So her power is removed molecule by molecule. The galaxy’s greatest telepaths sit there and they literally take Jean apart molecule by molecule, take out all of the molecules that relate to her psionic ability and put her back together again, leaving her a normal human being.”

“What I wanted to do then was spend about the next eight issues or so having Jean come to terms with the fact that she can no longer move things by thought, that she is locked inside of her head for the first time in her adult life. At the same time she has the memory that she had godlike powers, and more importantly, what she did with them.”

“I had a rough idea of where I wanted to take it, which was over the next year having her deal with what happened, with what she did,” Claremont revealed in Phoenix: The Untold Story. “From my point of view, I saw it as coming to terms with the fact that she killed five billion people – that she committed a crime for which she can never atone, and yet she’s still alive. The easy way out would be just to jump off a cliff, but she can’t. She has to somehow put things right with herself, within herself.”

“The ultimate end of it, leading up to issue #150 (in 1981), would be that Magneto, having found out about this, would come in, kidnapping her, and offering her the power again on the false assumption that he could control her. And the X-Men would come to her rescue. They’d be battling Magneto on one section of the Asteroid M, and she’d be in a room all by herself with Phoenix, the effect, the power, coming back, forced to make the choice (of a lifetime).”

“She denies it,” Claremont answered in The X-Men Companion. “She says “No! Get thee from me, Phoenix!” And the idea is, it is better to be human than it is to be a wrathful goddess.”

“In X-Men #137 (1980) Jean is the victim. She is not a protagonist; she is acted upon; she does not act in her own behalf. In X-Men #150 (1981) she is the hero. She single-handedly all by herself, and no one knows it, saves the universe again. It’s the greatest sacrifice that has ever been made...Essentially all the stuff the Watcher said at the end of (the published version of) X-Men #137 would have been said at the end of X-Men #150 but not because she killed herself, but because she denied this infinite power.”
http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...ad-to-die.html

Byrne pitch is too creepy. Even creepier taking into his generations and FF stories

[Havok83]

My buddy Michael Brower designed an updated uniform for Jean to bring her from “girl” to “Woman.” I think it’s a great design! I love the metallic gold as opposed to yellow.

It looks too much like Psylocke's costume

[WallStreeter]

I know art has a level of subjectivity, but both Frank Quitely and Igor Kordey are great artists. Igor did a fantastic phoenix raptor during the U-men story. Quitely did an amazing Jean Grey (re: the Imperial storyline).

Anywho, I met Jim Shooter yesterday. He is the former Marvel comics editor. He is the one that decided Jean Grey had to die at the end of the Dark Phoenix Saga. We went to his panel at a local comic con and there were only 6 of us listening to his stories. He is an old guy who doesn't like current comics and thinks they are social justice propaganda. He doesn't like Bendis.
'
I ended up on an elevator with him and my partner was wearing a Dark Phoenix shirt. He mentioned to Shooter that the DPS was his favorite story and Jim Shooter laughed about making them "kill her". It was a cool experience. I do not agree with Shooter about the state of comics but it was interesting to hear his experience. I did enjoy him talking about working with Stan Lee and some of his other insider stories. I wish he would understand younger folks and why social justice is so important to our generation and the younger generations.

It was cool meeting someone who had such an effect on the Jean Grey character. He also had nice things to say about Chris Claremont.

In a way these guys did what they did, fine or better or worse. But they do not own the characters and their opinions are completely irrelevant to the present and they future of comics. Comics are a part of pop culture abs represent the times. Disney earns money from more than white guys and so they have to market too much broader demographics.

[WallStreeter]

Same haha but I think this is a pretty good indication that they’re changing her costume to something else in her repertoire or hopefully, something completely brand new, fingers crossed she gets a complete redesign or at least go back to something that makes more sense for her like the X-Men Red costume. Would be great to see her in green Phoenix costume again but I won’t hold out hope.

If they put her in another Phoenix costume I think it would be the new one from Phoenix Resurrection or another new one.

[Havok83]

I dont see her putting on a Phoenix costume unless she bonds with the PF again

[CuteNimrod]

I dont see her putting on a Phoenix costume unless she bonds with the PF again

True but tragic, the phoneix costume is a combination of power, beauty and sexiness like no other.
Marvel should try putting her on something similar but without the bird.

[Devaishwarya]

I know art has a level of subjectivity, but both Frank Quitely and Igor Kordey are great artists. Igor did a fantastic phoenix raptor during the U-men story. Quitely did an amazing Jean Grey (re: the Imperial storyline).

It's funny that you mention this...and I agree 1000%
I LOVELOVELOVE Igor Kordey's NXM work. Quitely and Kordey aren't "pretty" artists but they are technically and evocatively exceptional.

I'm currently re-reading my Morrison run and it's mind-blowing how relevantly topical it was, (practically word-for-word rhetoric), back then in 2001 and now in 2018 given the US/Global stance on minority immigrants.

[Triniking1234]

Byrne pitch is too creepy. Even creepier taking into his generations and FF stories

I was about to say Generations was wholesome but mah boi had a Rosenberg killing spree and hooked up Supes' great grand-daughter with Bruce. LMAO

[Havok83]

Igor's art was ugly. Im sorry but he ruined what otherwise could have been an amazing arc. I really hated how he was brought in to do the pivotal Jean issues, especially since Jiminez did a few issues around him. As highly regarded as Morrison was at the time, its a shame Marvel didnt give him the top notch art in the company.