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  1. #5116
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Writers recently have been inconsistent. X-Men Red saw the relationship as mother/daughter. Guggenheim in Gold, after X-Men Red had Jean and Rachel have a mother/daughter relationship briefly (Jean specifically tells Cassandra let my daughter go) has Jean tell Rachel I´m not your mother.

    But Rachel is a member of the upcoming Grey/Summers family book, and with a teen Cable there I think clearly they are just going to portray Rachel and Scott and Jeans daughter with it not mattering how Rachel came to be.

    Jean and Scott have two kids, Cable and Rachel (featured in the books).

    Jean even acknowledged Nate Grey as her SON in X-Men Disassembled and if she acknowledges him, then yes she acknowledges Rachel. She goes out of her way to try to help him as a mother when it should have been a bit more ruthless.
    The scene in Gold happened months before Jean confronted Nova about Rachel in Red. Jean came across insensitive there, but that sentiment is more in line with what their relationship actually is. Both were snarky, like sisters would be. After her ordeal in X-Force, Rachel has alot of reason to be pissed so I wouldnt assume that they are going to have a good mother/daughter relationship going forward. I think Rachel might finally stop idolizing Jean and truly accept that she isnt her mother

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    They did that with Adult Teen Jean. Her costume was still Phoenix inspired. She was even called Phoenix still, when she fought the Silver Surfers and Galacticus. Of course that time line is no more.
    her costume was rather generic (all the O4 had the same one) and had no Phoenix inspiration. She exhibited a raptor but thats all. It was more inspired by the costumes that Lorna's team wore than anything Phoenix related
    Last edited by Havok83; 08-06-2019 at 11:03 AM.

  2. #5117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The scene in Gold happened months before Jean confronted Nova about Rachel in Red. Jean came across insensitive there, but that sentiment is more in line with what their relationship actually is. Both were snarky, like sisters would be. After her ordeal in X-Force, Rachel has alot of reason to be pissed so I wouldnt assume that they are going to have a good mother/daughter relationship going forward. I think Rachel might finally stop idolizing Jean and truly accept that she isnt her mother
    But why have them on the same team if they don´t want to exlore family dynamics? Especially now that Wifi is around and Jean and Scott have a child, I can just see this book as the Grey/Summer family book.

    This is the first time Jean and Rachel have been on the same team. They´re usually kept far from each other. So I think they will end up having a good mother/daughter relationship, especially Jean there as Wifi´s mommy.

  3. #5118
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I am not really a fan of the Phoenix force. In the original story it was Jean reaching those levels by herself, and I truly loved that. The Phoenix force has always seemed convoluted to me. Because of the retcon we have yet to see Jean reach the power levels that Moira and Xavier suspected that she has.
    Though maybe her tapping into the Phoenix force was achieving that power level. Or maybe we saw Jeen with pink form achieve that level. She´s gone as far as to take out the Imperial Guard and take down Galacticus.

  4. #5119
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    But why have them on the same team if they don´t want to exlore family dynamics? Especially now that Wifi is around and Jean and Scott have a child, I can just see this book as the Grey/Summer family book.

    This is the first time Jean and Rachel have been on the same team. They´re usually kept far from each other. So I think they will end up having a good mother/daughter relationship, especially Jean there as Wifi´s mommy.
    Exactly what I said. Family dynamics doesnt mean everyone is gonna be kumbaya and cool with each other. Exploring family dynamics doesnt mean its going to turn out favorably for them either. Its more interesting if they dont. Jean and Nate are close which could serve as a contrast to Scott/Rachel

  5. #5120
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    But why have them on the same team if they don´t want to exlore family dynamics? Especially now that Wifi is around and Jean and Scott have a child, I can just see this book as the Grey/Summer family book.

    This is the first time Jean and Rachel have been on the same team. They´re usually kept far from each other. So I think they will end up having a good mother/daughter relationship, especially Jean there as Wifi´s mommy.
    Who the hell is Wifi?

  6. #5121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Exactly what I said. Family dynamics doesnt mean everyone is gonna be kumbaya and cool with each other. Exploring family dynamics doesnt mean its going to turn out favorably for them either. Its more interesting if they dont. Jean and Nate are close which could serve as a contrast to Scott/Rachel
    The Fantastic Four has Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman as great parents, and throughout the years the Torch and thing have been great uncles.

  7. #5122
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The Fantastic Four has Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman as great parents, and throughout the years the Torch and thing have been great uncles.
    Thats nice. That has nothing to do with the dysfunctional Grey/Summers family we were discussing though

  8. #5123
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I just like Jean being motherly. I think it adds an entire layer to her character and it feels wholesome

  9. #5124
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    I agree: Jean being maternal is a bit wholesome and does add a bit to the character, but I think her having a strained, uncomfortable relationship with Rachel makes sense. She raised Nathan and there are things about Rachel, this person she didn't know until she was damn near an adult, that are stunningly similar to Jean herself. I think she should love her due to a kindred connection, but it's not the same as with Nate.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  10. #5125
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    I just wanna see Jean and Rachel go get milkshakes and talk about EVERYTHING.

    Nobody else around just them. I'd read an entire issue of just that.

  11. #5126
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I have seen this desing many times but I honestly don't know from where it came from.
    anybody here knows?
    tumblr_ood2fgqL6o1w759xfo1_1280.jpg

  12. #5127
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I have seen this desing many times but I honestly don't know from where it came from.
    anybody here knows?
    tumblr_ood2fgqL6o1w759xfo1_1280.jpg
    That looks like a variant of the 'If Jean was one of the Phoenix 5' costume.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  13. #5128
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    It's fanart or a cosplay of her Phoenix 5 look from Avengers Alliance.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  14. #5129
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    It's fanart or a cosplay of her Phoenix 5 look from Avengers Alliance.
    Thanks

    I went looking other images and there ar every few sadly but still it is a gorgeous desing
    imgbin-marvel-avengers-alliance-jean-grey-emma-frost-wolverine-phoenix-force-jean-grey-free-vdZc.jpg

  15. #5130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont think it was ever made clear that Rachel's mother was the Phoenix clone or 811 Jean. Her parentage was revealed before the 616 retcon but that doesnt mean it automatically applies to her universe. We were always told that it was Jean, so for all intents and purposes, I think thats what we are lead to elieve. I know CC had some ideas about her being the literal daughter of the PF, but that never materialized.
    It doesn't really matter that Rachel's mother is 811 Jean or the 811 Phoenix copy of her or whatever. The point is that the 811 universe isn't a fork of the 616. Or, at least, it isn't a fork caused by Kitty's mind projection to the 616's past or Rachel's travel to the 616 past: Both universes were already different prior to those events. In one universe, Jean/Phoenix died on the moon, in the other she lived, married Scott and gave birth to Rachel.

    The consequence is that 616 Jean could never have been in Rachel's past, even if the timeline changed. She could never have been Rachel's mother. For 616 Jean, Rachel is nothing. A total stranger that just had a mother that looked like Jean and that was also called "Jean".

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