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  1. #5131
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    They are genetically related anyway. Just like Wolverine and X-23 share DNA. Logan wasn't there when Laura was a kid doesn't mean they should act like strangers. Logan and Laura like Jean and Rachel met after the kids were already grown, that doesn't mean they can't have a relationship.
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  2. #5132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    It doesn't really matter that Rachel's mother is 811 Jean or the 811 Phoenix copy of her or whatever. The point is that the 811 universe isn't a fork of the 616. Or, at least, it isn't a fork caused by Kitty's mind projection to the 616's past or Rachel's travel to the 616 past: Both universes were already different prior to those events. In one universe, Jean/Phoenix died on the moon, in the other she lived, married Scott and gave birth to Rachel.

    The consequence is that 616 Jean could never have been in Rachel's past, even if the timeline changed. She could never have been Rachel's mother. For 616 Jean, Rachel is nothing. A total stranger that just had a mother that looked like Jean and that was also called "Jean".
    Jean, Nathan, and Scott accept Rachel genetically as family nonetheless so that's all that counts.
    Last edited by Shreene; 08-06-2019 at 03:17 PM.

  3. #5133
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Jean, Nathan, and Scott accept Rachel nonetheless so that's all that counts.
    Exactly this.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  4. #5134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Theres a big difference in that 616 Jean did not give birth to or raise her, therefore does not have the same connection to Rachel as her actual mother does.
    Exactly. Rachel was nothing to 616 Jean. Their relationship is of the same kind as she could have developed with anyone else. As for Rachel, she was seeing her mother in Jean but that was deluding herself. At first she believed that she was in her past but after she realized that she was in another universe's past.

  5. #5135
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Well Jean adopted Rachel as daughter, not really her daughter but she kinda is

  6. #5136
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Well Jean adopted Rachel as daughter, not really her daughter but she kinda is
    You mean like Nathan and Hope or Logan and Laura?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    Exactly. Rachel was nothing to 616 Jean. Their relationship is of the same kind as she could have developed with anyone else. As for Rachel, she was seeing her mother in Jean but that was deluding herself. At first she believed that she was in her past but after she realized that she was in another universe's past.
    To bad neither Jean nor Rachel feel that way about each other

  7. #5137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Jean, Nathan, and Scott accept Rachel genetically as family nonetheless so that's all that counts.
    Sure they now accept Rachel as family (they accept a lot of other people as family too actually... And Jean didn't accept Rachel at first). I don't understand why you say "genetically" because accepting someone as family has little to do with genetic.

    Anyway, I was answering to comment of the kind "if you travel in time and meet someone that is supposed to be your kid (or the reverse), you would be curious about it" to point out that Rachel isn't Jean child. She isn't even Jean's child from an alternate future of Jean because Rachel's 811 could never be a possible future of Jean's 616 universe: The separation between the 811 and 616 universe happened when Jean died/lived on the moon or earlier. Jean wasn't pregnant at that time and then she was dead in the 616.

  8. #5138
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Thanks

    I went looking other images and there ar every few sadly but still it is a gorgeous desing
    Attachment 85503
    A beautiful pic.

    PS I love your avatar Phoenixzero23. Jean's illuminated eyes are so cool and a tad creepy.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  9. #5139
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    Sure they now accept Rachel as family (they accept a lot of other people as family too actually... And Jean didn't accept Rachel at first). I don't understand why you say "genetically" because accepting someone as family has little to do with genetic.

    Anyway, I was answering to comment of the kind "if you travel in time and meet someone that is supposed to be your kid (or the reverse), you would be curious about it" to point out that Rachel isn't Jean child. She isn't even Jean's child from an alternate future of Jean because Rachel's 811 could never be a possible future of Jean's 616 universe: The separation between the 811 and 616 universe happened when Jean died/lived on the moon or earlier. Jean wasn't pregnant at that time and then she was dead in the 616.
    You realize how insensitive you're coming off right? Especially to people who have been adopted or fostered?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #5140

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    They are genetically related anyway. Just like Wolverine and X-23 share DNA. Logan wasn't there when Laura was a kid doesn't mean they should act like strangers. Logan and Laura like Jean and Rachel met after the kids were already grown, that doesn't mean they can't have a relationship.
    Sure. But it also doesn't mean that they should automatically act like if they are relatives. There is nothing mandatory in their relationship (or lake of) contrary to what some readers want to make it. Their relationship is the one that developed after knowing each others.

    Jean has a different kind of bond with Nathan because she raised him since he was a baby and spend many years as a real family with him and Scott. She only knew Rachel as an adult and didn't spent that much time with her outside of "work".

  11. #5141
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    A beautiful pic.

    PS I love your avatar Phoenixzero23. Jean's illuminated eyes are so cool and a tad creepy.
    Thanks!
    and yeah those eyes are beautiful and dangerous.
    My opinions are my own
    Sometimes I can express negative opinions about certain topics but It is never my intention to offend you.

  12. #5142
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    Sure. But it also doesn't mean that they should automatically act like if they are relatives. There is nothing mandatory in their relationship (or lake of) contrary to what some readers want to make it. Their relationship is the one that developed after knowing each others.

    Jean has a different kind of bond with Nathan because she raised him since he was a baby and spend many years as a real family with him and Scott. She only knew Rachel as an adult and didn't spent that much time with her outside of "work".
    LOL...they didnt even work much together. Prior to her return last year, Excalibur 75 was the most time Jean ever spent alone with Rachel. That was maybe like an hour tops. She then saw her at her wedding but she was preoccupied for the most part

  13. #5143

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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    You realize how insensitive you're coming off right? Especially to people who have been adopted or fostered?
    Either you didn't understood what I wrote or imho, it's you who is specially insensitive to adopted people or people who adopted: are you really saying that you can only be accept as family or accept someone as family if you are genetically related?

    You may be curious about who your genetic parents are. You may want to know about them and learn to know them because they are a part of who you are. But the "genetic relationship" is an abstract concept until you meet and develop (or not) a relationship with those people. It's not something that is given or automatic. Plenty of people don't want to know their genetic parent or children. On the other side, the people that always were part of your life, whatever you are genetically related to them or not, have a bond with you. They made who you are at a deeper level than just genetic.

  14. #5144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    LOL...they didnt even work much together. Prior to her return last year, Excalibur 75 was the most time Jean ever spent alone with Rachel. That was maybe like an hour tops. She then saw her at her wedding but she was preoccupied for the most part
    I was being generous (and I am assuming that they spent some time together off-book after they started to know each others in X-Factor)

  15. #5145
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narasinha View Post
    Either you didn't understood what I wrote or imho, it's you who is specially insensitive to adopted people or people who adopted: are you really saying that you can only be accept as family or accept someone as family if you are genetically related?

    You may be curious about who your genetic parents are. You may want to know about them and learn to know them because they are a part of who you are. But the "genetic relationship" is an abstract concept until you meet and develop (or not) a relationship with those people. It's not something that is given or automatic. Plenty of people don't want to know their genetic parent or children. On the other side, the people that always were part of your life, whatever you are genetically related to them or not, have a bond with you. They made who you are at a deeper level than just genetic.
    If that's the case, why don't they just retcon her lineage away. She'll be Rachel Martin or something like that. If the writers shouldn't tackle it, then get rid of it.

    Otherwise, there is no real world precedent for her. Jean-811 is her mom. Jean-616 is functionally identical. If that difference is too much for you, fine. But I tend to think Jean, being a WORLD-CLASS EMPATH, would have slightly more empathy than that.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

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