Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Omega_DCD]

She didn't severely injure Galactus...he is haughty, he routinely mocks mortal life forms as being gnats unworthy of his attention...Jeen got his attention. That combined with Phoenix just meant he'd rather not get into a protracted fight just for a meal.

If it were Jeen alone, after that punch, she wouldn't have anywhere near the endurance to defeat him.

[PsychoEFrost]

She didn't severely injure Galactus...he is haughty, he routinely mocks mortal life forms as being gnats unworthy of his attention...Jeen got his attention. That combined with Phoenix just meant he'd rather not get into a protracted fight just for a meal.

If it were Jeen alone, after that punch, she wouldn't have anywhere near the endurance to defeat him.

The last Blue showed that Jean at some point blew off most of Galactus's face, to the point he sends multiple Power Cosmic beings at her. While this is events yet to come, it shows the level that Jean is above everyone else.

[Grey]

Being able to come back from complete annihilation solely using TK IS overpowered. It's why there is zero drama to any story Wolverine or X-23 is in (as much as I like her). They cannot die, nothing (realistic) can kill them, so they are never in any real danger. The drama comes from them not being able to achieve whatever they were trying to do.

Again, the X-Men fight regular humans, augmented humans like the Reavers, giant killer robots, and other mutants. These are almost all street-level threats outside outliers like Apocalypse or Vulcan. Being able to severely injure Galactus under laughably easy to achieve circumstances is way, way, WAY above that.

This is all opinion, as is my view.

There are ways to incorporate this power into a story. Bendis did it just fine, imo.

[PsychoEFrost]

This is all opinion, as is my view.

There are ways to incorporate this power into a story. Bendis did it just fine, imo.

Bendis incorporated it by having Jeen be extreme levels of power stronger than everyone else. If all you want are feats, then sure Jeen being the most powerful mutant on Earth by a fair margin works. But I'm not sure how you do any story involving the X-Men's usual opponents without it starting and ending with "Jean went Pink Form, annihilated all of them, and got some ice cream".

[phoenixzero23]

Bruh.

This looks so much better!

[Omega_DCD]

Bendis incorporated it by having Jeen be extreme levels of power stronger than everyone else. If all you want are feats, then sure Jeen being the most powerful mutant on Earth by a fair margin works. But I'm not sure how you do any story involving the X-Men's usual opponents without it starting and ending with "Jean went Pink Form, annihilated all of them, and got some ice cream".

And as I said before, what about non-sentient or mechanical opponents?

And twice that she's used it, she counted on the element of surprise (Baby Xavier and Galactus)

[PsychoEFrost]

And as I said before, what about non-sentient or mechanical opponents?

And twice that she's used it, she counted on the element of surprise (Baby Xavier and Galactus)

According to the literature, she can draw the ambient psychic energy in the area. So her own energy or the energy of other sentient beings such as her own teammates or even any bystanders within a fairly large radius.

She also used it to crack Emma's diamond form after Emma pissed her off, and originally used it against Gladiator. The reconstitution of her own body during Venomized is also an extension of the Pink Form.

[Havok83]

Being able to come back from complete annihilation solely using TK IS overpowered. It's why there is zero drama to any story Wolverine or X-23 is in (as much as I like her). They cannot die, nothing (realistic) can kill them, so they are never in any real danger. The drama comes from them not being able to achieve whatever they were trying to do.

Again, the X-Men fight regular humans, augmented humans like the Reavers, giant killer robots, and other mutants. These are almost all street-level threats outside outliers like Apocalypse or Vulcan. Being able to severely injure Galactus under laughably easy to achieve circumstances is way, way, WAY above that.

yeah but you are ignoring the fact that she was connnected to EVERY Poison after her death and her body wasnt completely destroyed, so it acted as an anchor to boost up her TK to destroy it and make a new one. That is a very specific circumstance and Jean shouldnt be able to revive herself anytime she dies. If she's shot by a bullet tomorrow, then she's dead and gone. The Hive mind is the sole reason she was able to do that trick post-mortem

And you dont need danger in every storyline. You mention X-23 and Wolverine and like you said, they are virtually immortal but that doesnt preclude them from having tons of interesting material and stories. We dont need to believe that characters can die at any moment to get great stuff to read.

According to the literature, she can draw the ambient psychic energy in the area. So her own energy or the energy of other sentient beings such as her own teammates or even any bystanders within a fairly large radius.

She also used it to crack Emma's diamond form after Emma pissed her off, and originally used it against Gladiator. The reconstitution of her own body during Venomized is also an extension of the Pink Form.

When did she crack Emma's diamond form?

[Omega_DCD]

According to the literature, she can draw the ambient psychic energy in the area. So her own energy or the energy of other sentient beings such as her own teammates or even any bystanders within a fairly large radius.

She also used it to crack Emma's diamond form after Emma pissed her off, and originally used it against Gladiator. The reconstitution of her own body during Venomized is also an extension of the Pink Form.

She did not crack Emma's diamond form? Are you talking about the scene with Emma egging Jean on to hit her, and them laughing at the end and Emma saying she's going to train Jeen? Cuz all she did was knock her down

[Grey]

Bendis incorporated it by having Jeen be extreme levels of power stronger than everyone else. If all you want are feats, then sure Jeen being the most powerful mutant on Earth by a fair margin works. But I'm not sure how you do any story involving the X-Men's usual opponents without it starting and ending with "Jean went Pink Form, annihilated all of them, and got some ice cream".

I understand the point you’re trying to make but plenty of other superheros have immense power and they still have good stories. I’m not a writer so I don’t have it in me to explain how it can be done. But obviously it can be since it is in other books.

Jean’s pink power is very powerful but I feel every time that it won the match, they were extreme situations.

1.) against Xavier jr and three cuckoos - she was heavily outnumbered but her power makes her strong against telepaths. I think now especially that she’s been deemed as THE omega level telepath (along with Quentin, per Hickman), this is a justifiable advantage against telepaths.

2.) against galactus she was drawing off of Multiple cosmic beings. Not common or the x-men’s “usual enemies”.

3.) in poison crossover, she was mentally connected to all the other poisons which helped her.

My point is, it’s not like jean using the power is her just amped up owning regular threats in their rogues gallery. They were specific scenarios that allowed jean to harness her new power. I think this is a fair trade off- it means she can be super powerful sometimes but in many situations she’s just at a more normal (yet still formidable) power level.

I don’t know much about bishop but doesn’t he do more damage the more energy he absorbs? I feel like there are some comparisons that can be made there (though obviously there are a lot of differences too).

[Grey]

Let’s not forget, jean was knocked out by Karnak via a pebble to the face. She was so distracted trying to control
Him telepathically that she wasn’t thinking of using her TK
To protect herself.

Like that scene or not, it goes to show that jean is not some omnipotent character even with her pink power.

[Grey]

Just for fun

This is why I’m not a fan of thought bubbles smh.

[PsychoEFrost]

She did not crack Emma's diamond form? Are you talking about the scene with Emma egging Jean on to hit her, and them laughing at the end and Emma saying she's going to train Jeen? Cuz all she did was knock her down

I thought Emma's form had a crack near the neck afterwards, but that might have been my interpretation.

[PsychoEFrost]

Let’s not forget, jean was knocked out by Karnak via a pebble to the face. She was so distracted trying to control
Him telepathically that she wasn’t thinking of using her TK
To protect herself.

Like that scene or not, it goes to show that jean is not some omnipotent character even with her pink power.

In Jeen's defense, that was an event that favors the Inhumans, so Karnak had to look good.

[PsychoEFrost]

My issue with the Pink Form in general is that it has no drawbacks, no limitations, and no reason to this point why Jean wouldn't use it in every possible situation. The stated literature has it being able to channel all of the ambient psychic energy in the area, which is open to a million different interpretations. The first use against Gladiator showed that it wasn't just psionically gifted beings she could draw from, so any organic sentient life should be able to work. The use against the Venom Hive showed that even Hive Mind creatures give off enough psionic energy individually to use to power it. Just having someone like Betsy or Rachel within the same area code would power her enough to drop someone like Mister Sinister in a single blow, let alone a lot of people. If she did have the Pink Form in X-Force, what would be the point of any of her teammates?