Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[spirit2011]

Jean has a figure coming out next year that looks pretty cute.
https://www.entertainmentearth.com/p...tent=QMMVL0045

This is so cute

[Harpsikord]

Is it canon? Did it stick? Who died?

It's canon. Wally West was turned into a mass murder and a bunch of characters were killed off like Solstice, Roy Harper, and a bunch of others.

LMAOOOO Heroes in Crisis?? Really? Did Jean kill another planet? Or did she just not get feats this week? Let's put **** in perspective, please.

No, she was just treated massively out of character for the so-called benefit of the story, just like [insert any character in HiC here].

[spirit2011]

LMAOOOO Heroes in Crisis?? Really? Did Jean kill another planet? Or did she just not get feats this week? Let's put **** in perspective, please.

She got a feat, but horrible characterization.

[powerpax]

No, she was just treated massively out of character for the so-called benefit of the story, just like [insert any character in HiC here].

She wasn't the star and wasn't exactly at her best, but she was also injured and on a suicide mission. Not the same as Wally West killing half the DCU.

[Harpsikord]

She wasn't the star and wasn't exactly at her best, but she was also injured and on a suicide mission. Not the same as Wally West killing half the DCU.

She's not the only one that jobbed either, though. I'm not just talking about Jean. Husk and Archangel got killed off panel, Mystique was written as stupid enough to be spaced, Cyclops got shot in the head. The only characters that were written competently even upon their deaths were Nightcrawler, Wolverine, and Penance.

Just like the only character in Heroes in Crisis that was written competently was Harley Quinn.

[powerpax]

She's not the only one that jobbed either, though. I'm not just talking about Jean. Husk and Archangel got killed off panel, Mystique was written as stupid enough to be spaced, Cyclops got shot in the head. The only characters that were written competently even upon their deaths were Nightcrawler, Wolverine, and Penance.

Dying =/= incompetent. The Orchis squad got the job done.

[Harpsikord]

Dying =/= incompetent. The Orchis squad got the job done.

Yeah, no, hard disagree. Even Cyclops was written as practically neutered here. There's no way that a well-written Cyclops would let his entire team die: wasn't that one of the biggest criticisms of Matthew Rosenberg's run? Why is Hickman getting praise for doing the same thing?

[powerpax]

Yeah, no, hard disagree. Even Cyclops was written as practically neutered here. There's no way that a well-written Cyclops would let his entire team die: wasn't that one of the biggest criticisms of Matthew Rosenberg's run? Why is Hickman getting praise for doing the same thing?

A suicide mission does not scream 'neutered' to me. Scott made the hard call and they got it done as he promised. He died for the cause, they all did.

'Good writing' = 'my faves are always winning, all the time.'

[KangMiRae]

She's not the only one that jobbed either, though. I'm not just talking about Jean. Husk and Archangel got killed off panel, Mystique was written as stupid enough to be spaced, Cyclops got shot in the head. The only characters that were written competently even upon their deaths were Nightcrawler, Wolverine, and Penance.

Just like the only character in Heroes in Crisis that was written competently was Harley Quinn.

Didn't King write Harley Quinn beating the Trinity in HiC? Not even she was written competently!

[Harpsikord]

'Good writing' = 'my faves are always winning, all the time.'

Which is notably not what I'm asking for. But portraying the characters, in general, as being able to do things that they should normally be able to do no problem isn't a hard ask especially from a competent writer like Hickman.

Cyclops wouldn't let his entire team die. Archangel and Husk wouldn't be stupid enough to be taken out by an explosion, especially when one of them is an avatar of death. Jean wouldn't sit idly and passively by while her friends get murdered, and then allow herself to get killed by three sentinels, especially when she can fly through space without a problem.

Everyone jobbed this issue other than Monet, Logan, and Kurt. Everyone.

Hickman is better than this. If there isn't something else going on, there's a problem. A big one.

[Daedra]

'Good writing' = 'my faves are always winning, all the time.'

No need to be dense on purpose, no one is complaning about the death, the issue here is the attitude showed when facing inevitable doom.

[powerpax]

No need to be dense on purpose, no one is complaning about the death, the issue here is the attitude showed when facing inevitable doom.

I'm not. When you claim Scott and the entire team was ineffectual and neutered that's simply not true. Scott and the team went there to stop Mother Mold, survival optional. They died completing the mission. Death is not a fail state.

[powerpax]

Which is notably not what I'm asking for. But portraying the characters, in general, as being able to do things that they should normally be able to do no problem isn't a hard ask especially from a competent writer like Hickman.

Cyclops wouldn't let his entire team die. Archangel and Husk wouldn't be stupid enough to be taken out by an explosion, especially when one of them is an avatar of death. Jean wouldn't sit idly and passively by while her friends get murdered, and then allow herself to get killed by three sentinels, especially when she can fly through space without a problem.

Everyone jobbed this issue other than Monet, Logan, and Kurt. Everyone.

Hickman is better than this. If there isn't something else going on, there's a problem. A big one.

Okay, but the nature of drama is that characters can and will sometimes be surprised, blindsided or defeated. If we say well, the X-Men can never die or get ambushed and taken out because they've defeated something else like this or that in the past, then there is no dramatic tension or point to any kind of sustained narrative. The X-Men got blindsided by Erasmus' unexpected suicide play and people died because of it. It's happened before to others and it happened again. No one battle or situation is the same, and past best feats do not always uniformly inform each and every battle. Sometimes **** just goes wrong.

Jean's primary purpose on mission was to maintain an interstellar communication uplink between the X-Men and Krakoa. She did that until the moment she died. Flashy or as offensive as she could've been in past? No, and I can understand that complaint to a point. But it was also a measure of success that contributed to the mission being completed.

What I take bigger issue with is the complaint about the overall mission and team. Scott's primary purpose was to lead the Orchis squad to infiltrate the forge and destroy the Mother Mold, whether or not they lived or died. He made sure they did that. He made the call to continue, he ejected one of the collars and then directed Kurt and Logan to take out the last one. He and his team completed the mission in spite of total casualties. That is not a failure, that is necessity. That's what a leader does.

[Havok83]

A suicide mission does not scream 'neutered' to me. Scott made the hard call and they got it done as he promised. He died for the cause, they all did.

'Good writing' = 'my faves are always winning, all the time.'

Cyclops bringing Archangel for this mission when they'd be fighting close quarters was dumb

Husk being inconsequential cannon fodder was dumb

Nightcrawler porting inside for recon isntead of Jean scanning the place was dumb

Jean not TK shielding the spacecraft (and she would have had she been scanning the base) was dumb

Jean cowering on the floor the entire issue and not being proactive was dumb

Mystique's Lysa Arryn moment was funny yet dumb

Xavier not establishing TP link with the team before they left was dumb as was them not having communicators.

The issue was a good read but there was alot wrong with it.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Jean was essential in communicating to X and the readers the collective loss of the X-men on the mission. Seeing her face of anguish and desperation (which is the embodiment of the collective anguish of everyone hurt, scared, or dead) is crucial to justify whatever X has planned to make sure the cycle of loss stops now.