Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Harpsikord]

Cyclops bringing Archangel for this mission when they'd be fighting close quarters was dumb

Husk being inconsequential cannon fodder was dumb

Nightcrawler porting inside for recon isntead of Jean scanning the place was dumb

Jean not TK shielding the spacecraft (and she would have had she been scanning the base) was dumb

Jean cowering on the floor the entire issue and not being proactive was dumb

Mystique's Lysa Arryn moment was funny yet dumb

Xavier not establishing TP link with the team before they left was dumb as was them not having communicators.

The issue was a good read but there was alot wrong with it.

This. Thank you. The characters weren't written the way that they should have been, and almost none of them had good showings.

[Havok83]

Jean was essential in communicating to X and the readers the collective loss of the X-men on the mission. Seeing her face of anguish and desperation (which is the embodiment of the collective anguish of everyone hurt, scared, or dead) is crucial to justify whatever X has planned to make sure the cycle of loss stops now.

Sure but that doesnt mean we have to ignore the blatant nonsensical choices made to showcase this

[CRaymond]

If Jean + Monet were able to contact Xavier + Cuckoos across interplanetary space, what kind of noncombat recon could've been done if Jean + Betsy + Emma + Xavier + Cuckoos + Quentin were all hooked up to a Cerebro?

Thinkamancy is OP.

[powerpax]

Cyclops bringing Archangel for this mission when they'd be fighting close quarters was dumb

Husk being inconsequential cannon fodder was dumb

Nightcrawler porting inside for recon isntead of Jean scanning the place was dumb

Jean not TK shielding the spacecraft (and she would have had she been scanning the base) was dumb

Jean cowering on the floor the entire issue and not being proactive was dumb

Mystique's Lysa Arryn moment was funny yet dumb

Xavier not establishing TP link with the team before they left was dumb as was them not having communicators.

The issue was a good read but there was alot wrong with it.

Them not doing what you would've done if you wrote the issue =/= dumb.

[Havok83]

Them not doing what you would've done if you wrote the issue =/= dumb.

Well it’s an opinion, not a fact and I said what I said

[Harpsikord]

Them not doing what you would've done if you wrote the issue =/= dumb.

And people worshiping the ground that Hickman walks on doesn't mean that the actions of most of the characters in this issue are in character.

That one's a fact by the way.

[powerpax]

That one's a fact by the way.

What, the worshipping part? Well, who would know my mind better than you?

But again: Jean not solo'ing various parts of the mission and sticking to one aspect of the mission she was specifically designated for is not OOC, it is a mission choice as well as a plot choice. You don't have to agree with the choice or the fact that she only did that, but that doesn't make it OOC. Jean (or anyone else) dying with the rest is also not OOC. These are just things you didn't like. And that's valid. But Jean not being the bravest, strongest, toughest tank in the mission, to me that's not OOC. YMMV, but that's where we're both at.

[Tank]

What, the worshipping part? Well, who would know my mind better than you?

But again: Jean not solo'ing various parts of the mission and sticking to one aspect of the mission she was specifically designated for is not OOC, it is a mission choice as well as a plot choice. You don't have to agree with the choice or the fact that she only did that, but that doesn't make it OOC. Jean (or anyone else) dying with the rest is also not OOC. These are just things you didn't like. And that's valid. But Jean not being the bravest, strongest, toughest tank in the mission, to me that's not OOC. YMMV, but that's where we're both at.

No one is asking for Jean to solo the mission. People are having a problem with how her character acted in that she had a) had to be told what to do b) cowered and cried like a lil bitch c) if she went down fighting is ok, but not going down without even trying to defender herself in anyway shape or form

Could care less about featz if she was written has having resolve and agency. Fans are ok with her failing, just not how it was done.

[Omega_DCD]

For me, it's not the feats(or lack thereof), but her entire disposition...it's tentative, while everyone else is showing steely resolve. She has to be prodded to be on mission by Cyclops, Wolverine and most off-putting of all, M(not getting into needing her telepathic support to begin with)

This is some other Jean. This is NOT the same Jean who, on the shuttle mission, assessed the situation, determined a course of action, absorbed Corbeau's flight knowledge, knocked out Scott, said her tearful goodbyes, and set her self to task, enduring way more pain than HOX Jean did from that explosion...enduring so much that even after her body is destroyed by radiation, she shunts death itself aside, carrying on, before the Phoenix intervenes.

It's just so glaring (to me) because she is furthest removed from her characterization than the others

[Harpsikord]

What, the worshipping part? Well, who would know my mind better than you?

Honey, I wasn't referring specifically to you. It's kind of funny that you thought that I was.

It's almost like I was reading through the HoX 4 thread before posting here or something.

[ExodusCloak]

Archangel is actually very good in close combat the wings have a mind of their own.

The smaller space makes him more dangerous

[Havok83]

Archangel is actually very good in close combat the wings have a mind of their own.

He's best in the air though where he has room to be most effective. Close quarters is dangerous considering he can accidentally kill or injure his teammates due to the proximity. He can manage if he has to in smaller spaces but thats not ideal and not a good utilization of his abilities. Given the mission, he was a poor choice

[spirit2011]

For me, it's not the feats(or lack thereof), but her entire disposition...it's tentative, while everyone else is showing steely resolve. She has to be prodded to be on mission by Cyclops, Wolverine and most off-putting of all, M(not getting into needing her telepathic support to begin with)

This is some other Jean. This is NOT the same Jean who, on the shuttle mission, assessed the situation, determined a course of action, absorbed Corbeau's flight knowledge, knocked out Scott, said her tearful goodbyes, and set her self to task, enduring way more pain than HOX Jean did from that explosion...enduring so much that even after her body is destroyed by radiation, she shunts death itself aside, carrying on, before the Phoenix intervenes.

It's just so glaring (to me) because she is furthest removed from her characterization than the others

Very well said. Jean is really the most OOC in the whole thing

also she can fly on the space

[ExodusCloak]

He's best in the air though where he has room to be most effective. Close quarters is dangerous considering he can accidentally kill or injure his teammates due to the proximity. He can manage if he has to in smaller spaces but thats not ideal and not a good utilization of his abilities. Given the mission, he was a poor choice

That whole team was a poor choice given they had access to 100+ more invulnerable mutants

[Havok83]

Jean's first appearance of 2019 and she rolls out with a dud.

That was my very first post in this thread this year. Sigh, 8 months later and nothing has changed