Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Del torro]

Okay. I've been quiet, but there are a lot of things that stand out in Hickman story. It's been an enjoyable read, but some things don't jive.


Why is Scott so trusting with Xavier. This is the guy that kicked Xavier out after he found out everything he did. He wouldn't be so subservient and following Xaviers every word.

What the hell was cyclops thinking with the team he picked. Is this the same strategist that said 'let's say plan 2,noy plan b, plan b implies we have only 26 strategies in place'.
Why didn't he use teleports like Magik, Ariel, lila, pixie. Why didn't he bring people like magneto, Polaris who would detach the Sentinel from far away without help. Why not put people like Rachel on the team.

Why didn't they scan the Orchis base before attacking. The Xmen have like 10 Telepaths. Working together with cerebro/Cerebra/Searebro they could scan the base to find out everything or take over the minds of the scientists and detach the Sentinel. All from Krakoa.

I knew Hickman was going to kill off Warren. The minute I saw him. So disappointing


Mystique just makes me shake my head.

Seeing Jean like this just brings a bad taste to my mouth. Seeing her call Xavier sir and him call her child after he mind wiped her last year, and her acting like a scared child is disappointing.

[MechaJeanix]

It has been great seeing all the various fans criticize Hickman's use of Jean, but there are still some comics podcasters and the like that just wants to put down the fans who are disappointed. But our critique is extremely valid but for whatever reason people want to dismiss it. Though as I will continue to point out it isn't just us die hard Jean fans who are disappointed with her portrayal. I have seen so many fans on twitter express disappointment or at least confusion about the portrayal.

Women characters are often treated this way though. It is the same story over and over. Male voices and male characters are centered and are made to be strong. Women don't get to be as strong. They panic, they cry, they freak out. It is so boring and unimaginative.

Again, I am loving HOX/POX but this issue just didn't do it for me (and not just because of Jean - the X-deaths are overdone and tedious at this point). I didn't feel anything for all the deaths except "Oh, this again?"

[ThePhoenix]

Okay. I've been quiet, but there are a lot of things that stand out in Hickman story. It's been an enjoyable read, but some things don't jive.


Why is Scott so trusting with Xavier. This is the guy that kicked Xavier out after he found out everything he did. He wouldn't be so subservient and following Xaviers every word.

What the hell was cyclops thinking with the team he picked. Is this the same strategist that said 'let's say plan 2,noy plan b, plan b implies we have only 26 strategies in place'.
Why didn't he use teleports like Magik, Ariel, lila, pixie. Why didn't he bring people like magneto, Polaris who would detach the Sentinel from far away without help. Why not put people like Rachel on the team.

Why didn't they scan the Orchis base before attacking. The Xmen have like 10 Telepaths. Working together with cerebro/Cerebra/Searebro they could scan the base to find out everything or take over the minds of the scientists and detach the Sentinel. All from Krakoa.

I knew Hickman was going to kill off Warren. The minute I saw him. So disappointing


Mystique just makes me shake my head.

Seeing Jean like this just brings a bad taste to my mouth. Seeing her call Xavier sir and him call her child after he mind wiped her last year, and her acting like a scared child is disappointing.

We still don't know why Jean reacts this way. I believe there is a twist in all of this. Hickman plans way ahead and having characters doing what they are doing means that there is a reason for it. For example if that Jean is a clone then is logical for her not to be in full power or something has been donw to Jean to act like that.

It has been great seeing all the various fans criticize Hickman's use of Jean, but there are still some comics podcasters and the like that just wants to put down the fans who are disappointed. But our critique is extremely valid but for whatever reason people want to dismiss it. Though as I will continue to point out it isn't just us die hard Jean fans who are disappointed with her portrayal. I have seen so many fans on twitter express disappointment or at least confusion about the portrayal.

Women characters are often treated this way though. It is the same story over and over. Male voices and male characters are centered and are made to be strong. Women don't get to be as strong. They panic, they cry, they freak out. It is so boring and unimaginative.

Again, I am loving HOX/POX but this issue just didn't do it for me (and not just because of Jean - the X-deaths are overdone and tedious at this point). I didn't feel anything for all the deaths except "Oh, this again?"

I agree that there are issues however I think that we should wait for the whole story. Hickman's point for the deaths is exactly how you feel. This again? That's why the no more response.

I will say that Hickman did it again. Like Jordan D. White said in his latest interview Hickman has the readers "where he wants them at every step". He surely predicted all of the reactions.

[Devaishwarya]

I firmly believe the deaths of that team (heavily foreshadowed at the start of HoX 3 though we all thought it would go differently) was intentional...to Up the Ante both, dramatically and emotionally. At which HiX-Man clearly succeeded.
But...
The fact that Jean and Scott (at least so far) show up at the start of DoX obviously means that it doesn't stick (via cloning, ressurection, rebooting?) So...personally, I can't be too torn or even overly critical with this plot development and how it transpired for all involved.

[spirit2011]

It has been great seeing all the various fans criticize Hickman's use of Jean, but there are still some comics podcasters and the like that just wants to put down the fans who are disappointed. But our critique is extremely valid but for whatever reason people want to dismiss it. Though as I will continue to point out it isn't just us die hard Jean fans who are disappointed with her portrayal. I have seen so many fans on twitter express disappointment or at least confusion about the portrayal.

Women characters are often treated this way though. It is the same story over and over. Male voices and male characters are centered and are made to be strong. Women don't get to be as strong. They panic, they cry, they freak out. It is so boring and unimaginative.

Again, I am loving HOX/POX but this issue just didn't do it for me (and not just because of Jean - the X-deaths are overdone and tedious at this point). I didn't feel anything for all the deaths except "Oh, this again?"

Yeah, I see many people having the same problem with Jean characterization and others fans dimissing it because of the feat.
Hickman doesn't has a good track record with female characters, he often focus on male characters. I will say that he did well with Monet

I remember people saying that the marvel girl dress was a regression of the character and people were like "it is only a dress LOL'. they were wrong

[MechaJeanix]

Yeah, I see many people having the same problem with Jean characterization and others fans dimissing it because of the feat.
Hickman doesn't has a good track record with female characters, he often focus on male characters. I will say that he did well with Monet

I remember people saying that the marvel girl dress was a regression of the character and people were like "it is only a dress LOL'. they were wrong

We agree yet again. I will give Hickman some benefit of the doubt but I do expect this is how he views Jean, and as others have pointed out he has a reputation for not writing women characters well. How is this a thing in 2019?

[PrezValentine]

Y'all are losing your minds over a supposed slight against female characters in general when it was pretty much just Jean and Husk. Moira is at the center of the plot, Rasputin kicked ass, Karima was a decent antagonist in PoX, Monet went out in a blaze of glory, Emma was amazing, Destiny was portrayed as a real BOSS and nobody cares about Mystique.

If you wanna accuse Hickman of something, at least do it correctly. His portrayal of Jean was bad, but he did nothing of the sort to the other female characters, except for Paige who was 101% shafted.

[Triniking1234]

Oh no. The author killed off a female character in a book where characters die a lot.
Oh what? He treats other female characters well. Nah, he killed mah fav.


maxresdefault.jpg

[phoenixzero23]

Gorgeous!
this is from X-men #1
Brooks made the Marvel Girl costume look beautiful!
https://twitter.com/MarkBrooksArt/st...776641/photo/1
EDy1FDoWkAAweBQ.jpg

[Havok83]

So what happened to Hickman saying the X-men would wear any number of past costumes from their closet, yet Jean so far has only been seen in that ridiculous dress? Im guessing another lie

[MechaJeanix]

Y'all are losing your minds over a supposed slight against female characters in general when it was pretty much just Jean and Husk. Moira is at the center of the plot, Rasputin kicked ass, Karima was a decent antagonist in PoX, Monet went out in a blaze of glory, Emma was amazing, Destiny was portrayed as a real BOSS and nobody cares about Mystique.

If you wanna accuse Hickman of something, at least do it correctly. His portrayal of Jean was bad, but he did nothing of the sort to the other female characters, except for Paige who was 101% shafted.

Except we are not and you are gaslighting a bit. He has used Moira and the others but compare their voices to the male ones, there is a huge difference. My concerns remain and are valid.

[Triniking1234]

He's portrayed Cardinal as a coward and Warren as an idiot in the one panel he got. Your concerns are still invalid.

[spirit2011]

So what happened to Hickman saying the X-men would wear any number of past costumes from their closet, yet Jean so far has only been seen in that ridiculous dress? Im guessing another lie

yeah, a big fat lie. they choose th eugliest for Jean

We agree yet again. I will give Hickman some benefit of the doubt but I do expect this is how he views Jean, and as others have pointed out he has a reputation for not writing women characters well. How is this a thing in 2019?

At least he seems to have nailed his favorite female characters. I'm worried is that he is overseeing all the line .

He's portrayed Cardinal as a coward and Warren as an idiot in the one panel he got. Your concerns are still invalid.

Cardinal is hickman OC and has a reason to be a coward.

Warren i sjust being Warren

Except we are not and you are gaslighting a bit. He has used Moira and the others but compare their voices to the male ones, there is a huge difference. My concerns remain and are valid.

I don't know why people come here to be condescending with us.

Hickman portrayal of Jean is wrong. Him using Moira or not, it won't change that

[MechaJeanix]

He's portrayed Cardinal as a coward and Warren as an idiot in the one panel he got. Your concerns are still invalid.

Nice try, but no. Look at the voice/manner/respect given to Cyclops, Wolverine, Magneto, Xavier, apocalypse, and compare to Moira, Jean, Mystique, Monet, and Emma. There is a difference whether you take it as a negative difference or not. The males are tough, non bitchy with a strong voice and confidence. Plus as I have said repeatedly Hickman has a reputation for this in his other books. He centers the male voice and experience. Again I’m not s hater , I liked his FF run but it was very straight white male centric. It is not hating to point these issues out. I still enjoy these runs even though I did not care for this latest issue due to a variety of reasons, which included Jean’s bizarre portrayal . I also didn’t care for the tedious x-men deaths because it is overdone .

[phoenixzero23]

I thought his Moira, Monet and Emma were great, badass and confident to be honest.
Yes, his Jean is far from the best but I don't think there is anything againts woman in his writting.
At least to me