Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[MechaJeanix]

That's not what he said. He did talk about featuring them in his first arc or first issue, but his main book has a rotating cast of characters and rotating stories. One of the first just happens to feature the Summers clan. He also indicated Ororo is heavily featured in #1.

I am a massive Ororo fan going back over 30 years so this argument also won't work for me, but your concern is noted.

You are Phoenixzero are misunderstanding me. I know his run isn't about the Summers family, but in an interview (I need to find it) I am pretty sure in general terms he said the "story" of the X-men was the summers family (basically inferring the X-men story [in entirety not his run] is Scott's story). Let me google and see if this is a thing or I'm misremembering.

[phoenixzero23]

Maybe I misunderstood your message but I want to make clear that me and powerpax are different people

[MechaJeanix]

Maybe I misunderstood your message but I want to make clear that me and powerpax are different people

It was a typo. I meant you and and not you are, obviously.

I think the interview I'm referencing may be the Marvel interview with the preview pages. It is where someone mentions the Summers family on the first cover and he explains his book is a one and done with rotating cast, but I'm pretty sure he makes a comment, perhaps a glib comment that the X-men story (inferred as whole) is a Summers family story.

There was a reason x-fans were clamoring for Scott's return from the dead, and he is the most popular character (I'd argue). I think he is important to the mythos but not more so than Storm or Jean (and a host of other characters like Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine).

[powerpax]

He specifically says "The X-Men book is not about the Summers clan. It's just one issue." Voila.

[powerpax]

I think the interview I'm referencing may be the Marvel interview with the preview pages. It is where someone mentions the Summers family on the first cover and he explains his book is a one and done with rotating cast, but I'm pretty sure he makes a comment, perhaps a glib comment that the X-men story (inferred as whole) is a Summers family story.

Mm, no. I just linked it above, he says the exact opposite.

[MechaJeanix]

Mm, no. I just linked it above, he says the exact opposite.

Yeah I just found it on my phone. I could have swore either him or JDW said something to that effect recently, but if I am wrong , I am wrong. I'm not going to beat myself up too bad for misremembering, but I do try hard to be accurate.

[Soulsword323]

You guys are seeing all the bad, but she was literally written as the moral compass of the story. She was the only one concerned for the humans at the station that is building the machine that annihilates them. She's always been the heart of the X-men and she was portrayed as such.

I agree with this. I don't think Hickman's Jean is all bad, and he clearly understands some things about the character. I know some have cited her interaction with Wolverine in issue three as well for being a problem, but I thought that her dialogue there was very true to Jean. She isn't a take no prisoners kind of person. My main problem was having her act like such a novice in the field when everything started going south. I wish she was more concerned about leaving Monet behind, and not coming off as so insecure. That being said, outside of that I haven't had too much of a problem. I wouldn't cite him has a favorite writer for Jean, but thus far it hasn't been too horrible. I'm not sure if things will get worse or better from here, but I'm trying to remain optimistic.

[spirit2011]

Does pretending that people are asking for power feats somehow obfuscate the truth that Jean Grey was notably out of character? It seems like these people would have been satisfied with her trying to put up a fight and failing, rather than being noticeably daintier and less courageous than all of the other characters, yes?

I'm just highlighting the obvious here...

at this point people are just not listening. Many people already said that the biggest problem is the characterization.

[phoenixzero23]

I liked this art
https://www.deviantart.com/dicedcala...olor-810958650
(ddetnp6-499c6e9b-aa7e-456e-86c8-3d8430688b03.jpg

[Omega_DCD]

Does pretending that people are asking for power feats somehow obfuscate the truth that Jean Grey was notably out of character? It seems like these people would have been satisfied with her trying to put up a fight and failing, rather than being noticeably daintier and less courageous than all of the other characters, yes?

I'm just highlighting the obvious here...

Agreed, some of us have tried to make this distinction

[spirit2011]

I am curious about Scott being cowardly, ineffectual, and a poor leader, outside of Teen Scott. Even if he has had moments, they weren't allowed to define him. Scott has been allowed to have this Shakespearean arc that most of the other characters, and especially the women characters do not get in the X-men. Outside of Clarmeont a lot of the male writers focus on Scott and Wolverine. Claremont did devote a lot of time on Storm, Rogue, Kitty, others. Claremont with all his problems did write women characters like actualized people and not support for the men. He didn't always center the males like we came to experience in the 90's and beyond in the X-men. I think this supports some of the fan conflicts : those of us that want women/minority characters centered and those who expect X-men to be the story of Scott Summers or Wolverine or Xavier. Hickman during a recent interview did act like the X-men were the story of the Summers family and in a Rosenberg issue he had Moonstar say to Scott that it was always the Scott story or the Scott and Jean story or Scott and Logan.

It wasn't always the case. I recently read the entire Uncanny run and as mentioned before in Claremont's classic run I'd argue Storm was the star. She was the heart of the team. She was focused and centered. The history of the X-men hasn't always been a man's story, but in recent years we have circled back to it and my fear is that this aspect will long continue. Again, it is a wait and see and I hope that I'm wrong. I will be happy to be wrong and will admit to being wrong.

Like I mentioned before some of us were spoiled by X-men Red, because Jean became a leader and Scott wasn't around. She was beginning to get some of the development that the Cyclops character got when she was dead. Now he's back and she seems way off and it just gives early 90's vibes and also call back to the early original X-men days.

I don't think teen Scott was as awful as jean in HOX #4, but sure he Adult Scott fans didn't liked him because he wasn't a good leader as the adult. He lead well on that venom event instead of crying and laying down on the floor.

Claremont realy wrote some strong women, he really gave marvel some needed good female portrayals at that time.

I think it is also different wrote female OCs than writing already established female superheroes. So far not impressed with his female heroes on Marvel.

I knew that Cyclops coming back could hurt Jean development, Xavier return too. Her role pushing the X franchise like Red is pretty much over.
X-force can be interesting, but it won't be the same as red

[phoenixzero23]

I knew that Cyclops coming back could hurt Jean development, Xavier return too.

Except it didn't?
Why do you say that.

[spirit2011]

Except it didn't?
Why do you say that.

I said "could". i'm not liking Jean on HOX, that already is a strike down, even if not definitive

[phoenixzero23]

I said "could". i'm not liking Jean on HOX, that already is a strike down, even if not definitive

Oh, okay.
being totally honest I haven't liked Hickman's Jean either but I just think that it is better to wait until the end to judge the results.
Maybe she rocks everything at the end, maybe she continues to fail, I don't know and i know she hasn't been stellar but i feel it is too early to judge.

[PsychoEFrost]

X-Force (and the upcoming Summers/Grey family book) are entirely unconnected by HoX/PoX. It is completely evident that everyone are just mind control puppets or pod people and slaves to Charles and Magneto. Once this event is over, Jean will return to where she was just after Red. Yeah, watching a character act dumb to tell a plot that has virtually no bearing on anything going forward sucks, but let's not pretend that crying in the corner unable to do anything Jean is anything more than a Charles Xavier power fantasy.