Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[powerpax]

If Marvel hated every long-term relationship there'd be none in print, and Rogue and Gambit would not be married. That clearly isn't the case.

[PsychoEFrost]

Because at the end of thee day Marvel doesn't care about any relationships. They think of them as liabilities, there is this problem with Jean where some writers and editors think that her being dead changes everything for everybody. She is just too big. That line of thought exist at Marvel and has nothing to with scemma, jogan, jott.

Exactly. Relationship teasing and building is how they draw fans, but once they're settled they become a liability to Marvel.

[powerpax]

Exactly. Relationship teasing and building is how they draw fans, but once they're settled they become a liability to Marvel.

IMO Scott and Emma never did. They fractured it as part of a larger event drama in the overall books (and kept them together in print for years after). But that was due to the nature of that relationship and those two characters, who related differently than Scott and Jean used to. Either way, this is still the Jean Grey thread so all I'll do is reiterate that I don't believe all Marvel romances are created equally forbidden. We've seen others last or drop and recur. And Scott and Jean are in fact back on again today - just with some changes.

[PsychoEFrost]

If Marvel hated every long-term relationship there'd be none in print, and Rogue and Gambit would not be married. That clearly isn't the case.

They don't hate everyone of them, but they regularly broke up the biggest names and the biggest relationships. Exceptions like Rogue and Gambit or Luke/Jessica notwithstanding. They are the exceptions that prove the rule. Look at their biggest names:

1) Wolverine. Never in a committed relationship, or the relationship will be dead/dying by the end of the solo.

2) Spider-Man. There is not enough time in the day to explain this one properly.

3) Iron Man. On again, off again with multiple partners.

4) Captain Marvel. They killed her boyfriend as soon as she got one, and that's just the modern era, not including everything including Marcus (SHUDDER).

The higher on the tier of popularity you are, the less chance your relationship will stick. Funny how Scott and Jean's relationship went rocky around the time the X-Men peaked in comic popularity.

[PsychoEFrost]

IMO Scott and Emma never did. They fractured it as part of a larger event drama in the overall books (and kept them together in print for years after). But that was due to the nature of that relationship and those two characters, who related differently than Scott and Jean used to. Either way, this is still the Jean Grey thread so all I'll do is reiterate that I don't believe all Marvel romances are created equally forbidden. We've seen others last or drop and recur. And Scott and Jean are in fact back on again today - just with some changes.

Disagree. To keep it short, their relationship was hardly settled though Whedon until Fraction's run. And that point, she faded into background character/Scott's cheerleader until they broke them up in AvX. They had milked all the relationship drama they could get, and moved them towards breaking it.

[spirit2011]

Because at the end of the day Marvel doesn't care about any relationships. They think of them as liabilities, that includes every couple at marvel not named Reed and Sue. As I said before scemma broke before Jean came back.
There is this problem with Jean where some writers and editors think that her being dead changes everything for everybody. She is just too big. That line of thought exist at Marvel and has nothing to with scemma, jogan, jott.

At the end of day they might find relaitonships disposable, but they pushed Scemma a lot. And Jean had to be dead fo rthat

the couple had a break years before Jean coming back, that is true too, but it doesn't invalidate Scemma as principal factor for jean dead.

[powerpax]

1) Wolverine. Never in a committed relationship, or the relationship will be dead/dying by the end of the solo.

That goes back to his inception, though. Wolverine has always been defined by tragedy, and often romantic tragedy. That pre-dates the modern era.

OMD we all know and hate, that's not up for dispute.

3) Iron Man. On again, off again with multiple partners.

Iron Man?? I'm not sure Iron Man has ever had a steady, popular and notable long-term relationship outside of maybe Pepper and maybe in the last ten years.

4) Captain Marvel. They killed her boyfriend as soon as she got one, and that's just the modern era, not including everything including Marcus (SHUDDER).

Carol also has never been defined or identified by major romances.

And Scott and Jean's romance didn't go wobbly until after the X-Men's popular peak - that was the '90s, IMO.

[powerpax]

Disagree. To keep it short, their relationship was hardly settled though Whedon until Fraction's run. And that point, she faded into background character/Scott's cheerleader until they broke them up in AvX.

Yes, we'll agree to disagree on all of that.

[spirit2011]

That depends on the relationship and the era. Scott and Jean were the first couple of the X-Men and inviolate for over a decade, and years of legendary story and romance before that. Scott and Emma also had quite a long and respectable run.

IMO: I suspect Marvel today knows Scott and Jean's romance has a huge generational fanbase and so they use it and capitalize on it, but I personally suspect they also find it boring without some kind of change or wrinkle. I am in agreement with them on this take, personally. I think that's why we're seeing Hickman allowed to potentially explore polyamory. It gives many fanbases some new spice and excitement. YMMV.

And I am biased, as I have never been a big fan of Scott and Jean together so I may be full of ****. I was the guy who thought Jean and Gambit had serious chemistry together early in the Revolution run when he and Rogue were broken up and Scott was dead. And it would've been so interesting IMO for Jean to get with a 'bad boy' from a very different generation of X-Men.

Poliamori seems even more unlikely. Comic industry moved to stable relationships, even marvel is doing it.
Batman book is so awful, but still has fans because of shipping.

There isn't this: oh couples are boring anymore. Everyone matured

[phoenixzero23]

I have been thinking that the X-men are a thing when Jean is alive (usually better, something good and positive) and when she isn't they become darker, edgy and tragic.
Why to you guys/girls think is that?

[PsychoEFrost]

I have been thinking that the X-men are a thing when Jean is alive (usually better, something good and positive) and when she isn't they become darker, edgy and tragic.
Why to you guys/girls think is that?

Pretty simple. Most of the X-Men are amoral. Kitty and Jean are the only two that can look people in the face and say they only want to help. Scott said as much during the Whedon run: Him and Hank are wrecks, Logan and Emma are amoral, only Kitty could stand as the face of the X-Men.

[5cents]

Rogue and Gambit would not be married. That clearly isn't the case.

They are still newly married but we will see where Marvel takes them.

Also whatever happened to Kitty’s engagement?

[5cents]

Marvel destroyed Jean’s marriage, killed her whole family and left her dead for over a decade. I think we all thought that when Jean comes back they would let her forge a new path but Marvel seems to be putting her back in the same role that they killed her for. This should be a question for X-Monday.

[Digifiend]

Carol also has never been defined or identified by major romances.

Not since she became a superhero anyway. She started out as Mar-Vell's love interest, remember.

Also whatever happened to Kitty’s engagement?

To Star-Lord? He decided he's rather rule over Spartax, so Kitty took over his role as Star-Lord. When he returned, she got a new costume (which looked pretty good, uncharacteristically for her), though that was shortlived, because the Guardians became Grounded soon after (they visited Earth for the Civil War II event, but Vision accidentally destroyed their ship), causing Kitty to leave the team. Initially, she wanted to retire as a superhero, until Storm came calling.

[spirit2011]

They are still newly married but we will see where Marvel takes them.

Also whatever happened to Kitty’s engagement?

Kitty abandoned Colossus owhen they were getting married, and then Gambit and Rogue got married