Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[loke13]

I long for Jean being characterized as assertive in her own drives and convictions and not as a means to fluff other characters.

I mean I love Morrison's Jean too but I've got faith that we'll see this Jean emerge as DoX slowly unfolds.

[MarvelMaster616]

I mean I love Morrison's Jean too but I've got faith that we'll see this Jean emerge as DoX slowly unfolds.

I agree. I think there's a lot of setup going on right now. We saw something similar with Morrison. Like Morrison, Hickman takes his time setting things up with characters. He did the same in his Fantastic Four run. He has positioned Jean to be influential, as a member of the council. She's showing up in a lot of other areas, which is a sign that she'll have her own story arc as the books unfold.

[spirit2011]

There is alot of better writers than Morrison for Jean. It was pretty clear in this page that he planned to Jean die and not come back

[phoenixzero23]

There is alot of better writers than Morrison for Jean. It was pretty clear in this page that he planned to Jean die and not come back

He robbed us of an entire decade of stories with Jean on them an people think that we have to be grateful for it. Jean is back anyway, all the drama was for nothing, she died for nothing.

[Soulsword323]

It's been said before, but Morrison isn't the one that kept Jean dead. Marvel/Editorial didn't bring her back, long after Morrison had left for DC (or wherever he went).

[phoenixzero23]

It's been said before, but Morrison isn't the one that kept Jean dead. Marvel/Editorial didn't bring her back, long after Morrison had left for DC (or wherever he went).

He didn't keep her dead, he killing her was just so "good" that Marvel thought it was cool to keep Jean dead. Do you think she would have even died without him?
He may have left for DC long ago but he was the one who killed her, nobody bothered to correct that until recently.

[Soulsword323]

He didn't keep her dead, he killing her was just so "good" that Marvel thought it was cool to keep Jean dead. Do you think she would have even died without him?
He may have left for DC long ago but he was the one who killed her, nobody bothered to correct that until recently.

Obviously he was the one who decided to kill her. I didn't care for it either, but Marvel could have brought her back long ago, and chose not to. CC didn't want Jean to come back in the 80s (or whenever), and Marvel still brought her back in X-Factor. Its their character, not Morrison's.

[spirit2011]

He didn't keep her dead, he killing her was just so "good" that Marvel thought it was cool to keep Jean dead. Do you think she would have even died without him?
He may have left for DC long ago but he was the one who killed her, nobody bothered to correct that until recently.

It's like who is the worse who pulled the trigger or the one that ordered the death? I will say both are equally to blame;

There wouldn't be a way to keep Jean dead if she wasn't dead. As people think that Morrison's run is the best since sliced bread (it isn't) Jean dead became the peak of the run and set up the new waves of books.
Bringing her back would ruin that, so they prefered to ruin the character

If we don't have Jean as writers favorites is Morrison fault,

DC brought back Talia some time after Morrison killed her but she is ruined. Asked any of her fans

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

What's better, a story in which a character who is known for coming back from the dead is a badass throughout and dies at the end, or stories where she is living, but doing absolutely nothing of note besides actively reversing her status as a force to be reckoned with?

[spirit2011]

What's better, a story in which a character who is known for coming back from the dead is a badass throughout and dies at the end, or stories where she is living, but doing absolutely nothing of note besides actively reversing her status as a force to be reckoned with?

The second one. because there is always stories after stories

[MechaJeanix]

Morrison's X-men is the gold standard that I use to judge any and all X-men stories. To me, Morrison and Claremont are the best Jean writers but I think Tom Taylor did a great job and so did Bendis, Bunn, and Hopeless. The writers of X-factor also did well with Jean.

Morrison's Jean was great in a variety of ways. Jean had her personality. She was compassionate, had strong resolve, and she was powerful. One of my favorite scenes is where she argues with Scott right before going into the Cerebra room to explain to everyone what Cassandra Nova was. She told Scott they had more important things to worry about then their glowing eyes frightening the republicans.

Jean was great in E is for Extinction, especially the last issue where her and Beast went to Genosha. She was great in the second issue where she puts Xavier in his place "that tone of voice may work with Scott..". She was awesome in Germ Free Generation where she takes on the U-men, excellent in the silent issue, and had a great role in Imperial. The scene where she downloads Xavier's mind is one of my all time favorite issues. She was brave to confront Nova.

I loved the issues where Jean and Xavier meet Fantomex. Morrison made telepaths feel strange and different as they should be portrayed. I loved when Jean allowed Fantomex to escape. I also loved the story with Xavier and Jean in Genosha with Storm and Thunderbird when they rescued Polaris.

The confrontation between Jean and Emma was epic. You felt for Jean because she was being betrayed but you also felt for Emma because Jean didn't pull any punches. I remember on this board, and even the Jean Grey Message board, fans were pissed at Jean for being so cruel and forceful. Jean is one of those characters when she's too goody two shoes fans seem to hate her for it.. for being miss perfect but as soon as she does something questionable fans lose their heads over it too. You can't win. I recall the amount of Jean Grey hate on this very board when Jean said "Hi, Sage" when Bishop and Sage questioned her about Emma's shooting.

Jean got to be the hero again when she put Emma back together in her "new age nightmare of forgiveness". Jean also shined in Planet X when she became fully Phoenix. I loved the art in those issues.

Here Comes Tomorrow, in my view eclipsed the Dark Phoenix Saga because of how good the writing was and the Phoenix once again was manipulated by others and not inherently an evil entity. The last scenes of Jean in the White Hot Room, which was just a re-imagining of what Claremont wrote in his Classic Backstory was awesome. To see Jean once again as White Phoenix and great. Finally Jean/Phoenix were back together as Claremont intended. There was a time I never thought that would happen again.

The scene where Jean holds the badly wounded orphan universe still gives me chills and it is another one of my all time favorite scenes.

Another thing I loved about Morrison's Jean is how other characters described her. Beast said she was a grown up omega mutant. Emma said she had a bad temper and didn't know her own strength. Emma said that her pacifist posturing hides a playground bully. Jean herself said she preaches brotherhood but comes home and fights. Cyclops talked about her huge emotions and worried about her control. Xavier talked about this "phoenix potential" she accessed that had power reserves on a cosmic scale.

I also loved the art. Quitely's Jean was truly stunning. If you disagree look at the last issue of the Imperial storyline. Phil's art in Planet X was also stunning. I will defend Kordey's art until my death lol Yes I even loved his Jean that often looked a little messy because when you are an uber psychic plugged into the phoenix consciousness who cares about hygiene.

I loved the contrast of Jean and Emma throughout the series. I also liked how Morrison saw Jean as an equal to Xavier. She called him Charles and not "sir".

I could go on but Morrison shown the character a lot of love and respect. It does not matter to me who his favs were or were not. Some of you do not like his run because of the affair but that was just one aspect of this run. Most of the time Jean had her own thing going on while Scott was doing his thing. They were separate characters with their own stories. They did overlap naturally but Jean had bigger things to do, like phoenix work.

I like it when Jean retains her warm personality but she still has a fiery edge and she has an aspect about her that causes her teammates concern. I like Jean who is a grown up omega mutant who doesn't need to be a damsel in distress but a major powerhouse (though can still be defeated, have struggles, not all powerful, etc).

Jean also had great imagery with the sparks of fire in her eyes and hair when she channels the Phoenix. Morrison's Jean was, in my mind the perfect balance of what we call plain Jean Grey and the Phoenix/Jean merger. It worked, and I think she was great.

When I'm down I re-read Morrison's X-men and it makes me happy. I know some of you have the opposite reaction to it but I feel like I've made a decent case of why I view it so well.

[Harpsikord]

I am in 100% agreement with MechaJeanix. I'd actually say that most of those other writers - Simonson, Taylor, Bunn, and then to be completely honest Brisson, Thompson, and Thompson/Nadler - write Jean much better than Claremont did but the point is that Morrison's Jean, along with Taylor and Simonson's, should be the gold standard that everyone is held to for her. Even if he killed her off, it wasn't his intention to keep her dead; in fact she was only dead for a year that first time and then it was Greg Pak that decided to write her out again along with editorial. But the point is that Morrison's Jean was confident, competent, compassionate, powerful, emotional, and all the things that Jean should absolutely be. It was claimed after the fact that he was trying to write Jean as though she were losing her humanity, but I didn't get that. In fact, she felt less emotionally detached than most portrayals of her in the 90s.

[MechaJeanix]

I am in 100% agreement with MechaJeanix. I'd actually say that most of those other writers - Simonson, Taylor, Bunn, and then to be completely honest Brisson, Thompson, and Thompson/Nadler - write Jean much better than Claremont did but the point is that Morrison's Jean, along with Taylor and Simonson's, should be the gold standard that everyone is held to for her. Even if he killed her off, it wasn't his intention to keep her dead; in fact she was only dead for a year that first time and then it was Greg Pak that decided to write her out again along with editorial. But the point is that Morrison's Jean was confident, competent, compassionate, powerful, emotional, and all the things that Jean should absolutely be. It was claimed after the fact that he was trying to write Jean as though she were losing her humanity, but I didn't get that. In fact, she felt less emotionally detached than most portrayals of her in the 90s.

Yep, though I will add when he said that Jean tries so hard to be good that she forgets to be human... I completely identified with that at the time (and still do) . I loved when Morrison said that during an interview even though recently I saw a fan hating on that quote on twitter. I think he was saying that Jean does strive to be a good and decent person even though she still has flaws. He also made a comment that Jean was evolving and becoming more empathic. I've said it before and I think Taylor also displayed it, but Jean is a very powerful telepath but empathy as an aspect of her pyschic power and as a personality attribute is a major part of her character.

[PsychoEFrost]

He didn't keep her dead, he killing her was just so "good" that Marvel thought it was cool to keep Jean dead. Do you think she would have even died without him?
He may have left for DC long ago but he was the one who killed her, nobody bothered to correct that until recently.

Grant Morrison had mind control powers and could control the entire Marvel editorial board for years even after he left.

[spirit2011]

I recall the amount of Jean Grey hate on this very board when Jean said "Hi, Sage" when Bishop and Sage questioned her about Emma's shooting.

Jean got to be the hero again when she put Emma back together in her "new age nightmare of forgiveness". Jean also shined in Planet X when she became fully Phoenix. I loved the art in those issues.

how Jean was a hero again? she never did anything wrong on Morrison's run. Not surprised on the board hating Jean over NOTHING

Here Comes Tomorrow, in my view eclipsed the Dark Phoenix Saga because of how good the writing was and the Phoenix once again was manipulated by others and not inherently an evil entity. The last scenes of Jean in the White Hot Room, which was just a re-imagining of what Claremont wrote in his Classic Backstory was awesome. To see Jean once again as White Phoenix and great. Finally Jean/Phoenix were back together as Claremont intended. There was a time I never thought that would happen again.

Here Comes Tomorrow is a poor story. It doesn't even hold up itself

Another thing I loved about Morrison's Jean is how other characters described her. Beast said she was a grown up omega mutant. Emma said she had a bad temper and didn't know her own strength. Emma said that her pacifist posturing hides a playground bully. Jean herself said she preaches brotherhood but comes home and fights. Cyclops talked about her huge emotions and worried about her control. Xavier talked about this "phoenix potential" she accessed that had power reserves on a cosmic scale.

you think that was good?
I'm pretty sure these bad descriptions are a big reason Jean got many haters since Morrison.

Since when fight for what you love is being a Bully?

or it is wrong come back and fight on home because a homewrecker decided to screw over your marriage?
One thing is being a pacifist and another is being a complete idiot

I really don't get all this love for Morrison.

And I don't see evidence that Morrison would bring her back soon.