Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[MechaJeanix]

I was reading the X-men Blue Reunion TPB (which collects the Seagle/Kelly run) and this struck me, where the artist was talking about how everyone hated Jean's costume (talking about the 90's one and he says she has little personality). This was when they put her back in the Phoenix costume and Cyclops was talking about how little they know about telepaths (he talks about Xavier creating Onslaught and mentions how Nate recreated Maddie).

I am trying to attach a picture of the interview at the back of the book. We'll see if I know how to do this. It struck me because often writers and some fans dismiss Jean as kind of boring. The writer of X-men first Class once said in an interview that one of his challenges was making Jean Grey interesting (he did write a good Jean imo).Annotation 2019-10-27 203805.jpg

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I was reading the X-men Blue Reunion TPB (which collects the Seagle/Kelly run) and this struck me, where the artist was talking about how everyone hated Jean's costume (talking about the 90's one and he says she has little personality). This was when they put her back in the Phoenix costume and Cyclops was talking about how little they know about telepaths (he talks about Xavier creating Onslaught and mentions how Nate recreated Maddie).

I am trying to attach a picture of the interview at the back of the book. We'll see if I know how to do this. It struck me because often writers and some fans dismiss Jean as kind of boring. The writer of X-men first Class once said in an interview that one of his challenges was making Jean Grey interesting (he did write a good Jean imo).

People don't always remember to give Jean the edge and fear-instilling presence she should have, so she can come off as flat if a writer isn't paying her any attention. It's easier to write characters whose personalities are permanently set to 'Snarky' in every situation.

And boy is he right about that awful costume.

[phoenixzero23]

Jean is fine, some writers just think she is only good but forget she has a temper. She is great when both are balanced.

[spirit2011]

The point remains is that he didn't resurrect her but brought back an earlier younger version before her character became complicated or convoluted. We will never really know why they didn't outright bring back adult Jean but brought back the teenager version especially as most of the 2012 interviews he acknowledges fans are wanting the return of Jean Grey.

Jean wasn't anymore convoluted that X-men at that time. This makes no sense to me specially when Bendis is very good on new reader friendly and ignoring continuity.

What I got is that Jeen was the closest he could write real Jean without editorial shutting it down.

The only thing he wrote with adult Jean was a cameo on JJ. I odn't think this was his intention

Jean is fine, some writers just think she is only good but forget she has a temper. She is great when both are balanced.

For me this looks like sexism. I never see male writers talking like this on captain america or superman.
Fans might talk, writers? hell no

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

This was when she decided she was going to embrace the Phoenix, even if her boyfriend was scared. Retroactively ironic, considering the Rosenberg story.

[TheDeadSpace]

I was reading the X-men Blue Reunion TPB (which collects the Seagle/Kelly run) and this struck me, where the artist was talking about how everyone hated Jean's costume (talking about the 90's one and he says she has little personality). This was when they put her back in the Phoenix costume and Cyclops was talking about how little they know about telepaths (he talks about Xavier creating Onslaught and mentions how Nate recreated Maddie).

I am trying to attach a picture of the interview at the back of the book. We'll see if I know how to do this. It struck me because often writers and some fans dismiss Jean as kind of boring. The writer of X-men first Class once said in an interview that one of his challenges was making Jean Grey interesting (he did write a good Jean imo).Annotation 2019-10-27 203805.jpg

I just see this view similar to the one many have about Cyclops, Superman, or any "goody two shoe" type of character (although not so much for Cyclops these days but that's another discussion). To some writers it might be hard to come up with a personal struggle for these characters at times, but it's the great ones that offer stories worth telling with them.

[phoenixzero23]

there were a few post calling Jean a mary sue on the giant size thread. Do you guys/girls believe she is one or not?
if not, why not?

[spirit2011]

there were a few post calling Jean a mary sue on the giant size thread. Do you guys/girls believe she is one or not?
if not, why not?

She isn't in any way. She has defects, really bad things happened to her.

To be a mary sue writers would need to be her fan. this is for someone else

[PsychoEFrost]

there were a few post calling Jean a mary sue on the giant size thread. Do you guys/girls believe she is one or not?
if not, why not?

Jean? No. Jeen? To an extent, but not nearly as bad (and it was understandable as they were pushing her super hard).

Taylor's Jean was kind of, what with Cassandra bending over to let Jean beat her, but overall she's never reached the Mary Sue territory that Aaron's Wolverine or certain Black Panther runs have gone.

[TheDeadSpace]

there were a few post calling Jean a mary sue on the giant size thread. Do you guys/girls believe she is one or not?
if not, why not?

Mary Sue/Gary Stu seems to be misused quite a bit. I wouldn't say Jean is one at all considering she has flaws, has failed at times, and is not liked by everyone. Also she doesn't come off as a self insert.

[franckd]

This was when she decided she was going to embrace the Phoenix, even if her boyfriend was scared. Retroactively ironic, considering the Rosenberg story.

You are right. During Seagle and Kelly's run, Jean decided to embrace the Phoenix imagery (and powers before the story got axed). The suit was so popular, that editors had - at least - the good idea to let the character keep the suit and the name, even if she didn't have the Phoenix force (that was great. Jean was Phoenix, suit and name, but was herself. No cosmic force involved)

That's why I don't get why in 2019, Jean was back with her Marvel Girl name and suit, during HOX.

2019, with the #metoo movement claiming that women should be strong, editors revert her to her 60's self ? I am not a hater. I loved, really loved POX/HOX. It was clever, fascinating. I never felt that good with a book till Morrison and Whedon's runs. Yes, HOX/POX were great books. But Jean Grey's writing was a shame. Jean Grey would never let herself die without a fight. I mean, she wasn't afraid to die to save her friends; in the space shuttle back in the 70's. And now she's screams like a little girl with no fighting back ? Sorry M. Hickman, I love your work. I think you're a really brillant guy. But you really got Jean wrong.

About the suit, I am disappointed that Dauterman went for the X-Men Red suit. This is one of the worst suit Jean ever wore. The recoloring is a bit helpful. But yet, it's not good.
The Phoenix suit was perfect. It's still perfect. It's timeless, unbroken. Why do editors/writers/artist would choose bad to average, when they have perfection juste before their eyes ?

Why do editors want to sever Jean from her Phoenix legacy, when it's the most popular time/look for the character ?

[MechaJeanix]

Jean? No. Jeen? To an extent, but not nearly as bad (and it was understandable as they were pushing her super hard).

Taylor's Jean was kind of, what with Cassandra bending over to let Jean beat her, but overall she's never reached the Mary Sue territory that Aaron's Wolverine or certain Black Panther runs have gone.

Someone enlighten me to what constitutes a Mary Sue, I was never a fan of language from fanfic (I never liked the term ships or shipping or OTP or any of that). When I think of Mary Sue or Marty Stu I think of Wesley Crusher -even though I loved the character because when ST:TNG originally aired I was younger than Wesley and I loved seeing a young boy on the show and saving the day!

I think of a Mary Sue character is one that always saves the day even when it makes no sense or a character that has flaws but their flaws are a strength and never a weakness. Is this it? I know I can use google but I'm lazy.

[spirit2011]

I just see this view similar to the one many have about Cyclops, Superman, or any "goody two shoe" type of character (although not so much for Cyclops these days but that's another discussion). To some writers it might be hard to come up with a personal struggle for these characters at times, but it's the great ones that offer stories worth telling with them.

I really never see male creators call these male characters boring.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Calling her a Mary Sue is about boxing her in. About control. Notice that when people say that they are arguing for her to just take whatever $#!+ another character is giving her.

Next time you see one of those posts, yawn and don't acknowledge it.

[phoenixzero23]

I really never see male creators call these male characters boring.

It is weird I sometimes think that Superman or Cap aren't treated like characters but more like ideals. Representations of things some people hold to high to critizice much.