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  1. #8236
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Jean ranked #15 on CBR's top heroes this year. Respectable, but I think down from last year's placement.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  2. #8237
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Jean ranked #15 on CBR's top heroes this year. Respectable, but I think down from last year's placement.
    Last year Jean had more hype from Red. But not bad for a character sabotaged by 15 years

  3. #8238
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Last year Jean had more hype from Red. But not bad for a character sabotaged by 15 years
    It is really impressive, I can't imagine any other character going throught the same and not being forgotten.

  4. #8239
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    It is really impressive, I can't imagine any other character going throught the same and not being forgotten.
    Maybe Barry Allen, but his case is a bit different. He was the 2nd Flash on silver age, died helping save the universe and was a good ideal to his sucessor live by. And when he came back he got push by DC biggest writer, movie and tv show versions

  5. #8240

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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I was reading the X-men Blue Reunion TPB (which collects the Seagle/Kelly run) and this struck me, where the artist was talking about how everyone hated Jean's costume (talking about the 90's one and he says she has little personality). This was when they put her back in the Phoenix costume and Cyclops was talking about how little they know about telepaths (he talks about Xavier creating Onslaught and mentions how Nate recreated Maddie).

    I am trying to attach a picture of the interview at the back of the book. We'll see if I know how to do this. It struck me because often writers and some fans dismiss Jean as kind of boring. The writer of X-men first Class once said in an interview that one of his challenges was making Jean Grey interesting (he did write a good Jean imo).Attachment 88781
    :

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    People don't always remember to give Jean the edge and fear-instilling presence she should have, so she can come off as flat if a writer isn't paying her any attention. It's easier to write characters whose personalities are permanently set to 'Snarky' in every situation.

    And boy is he right about that awful costume.
    This she's never the POV character often times in team books, more importantly many writers don't think of her so she plays the peripheral the problem is she ends up not very active and comes off passive and menial. A stark contrast imo of how Jean should be written, more specifically I agree she should have a presence, when that's absence so is her character voice.




    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Jean? No. Jeen? To an extent, but not nearly as bad (and it was understandable as they were pushing her super hard).

    Taylor's Jean was kind of, what with Cassandra bending over to let Jean beat her, but overall she's never reached the Mary Sue territory that Aaron's Wolverine or certain Black Panther runs have gone.
    Disagree if this is the criteria for what's a Mary Sue a case could be made for most the X-men. Nova didn't bend over Jean simply had a "better plan", no different than how she was defeated in NXM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    Someone enlighten me to what constitutes a Mary Sue, I was never a fan of language from fanfic (I never liked the term ships or shipping or OTP or any of that). When I think of Mary Sue or Marty Stu I think of Wesley Crusher -even though I loved the character because when ST:TNG originally aired I was younger than Wesley and I loved seeing a young boy on the show and saving the day!

    I think of a Mary Sue character is one that always saves the day even when it makes no sense or a character that has flaws but their flaws are a strength and never a weakness. Is this it? I know I can use google but I'm lazy.
    Honestly, it's a label thrust at anyone a reader doesn't like, around 09' it was at it;s high on these boards. Jean has never been a Mary Sue as she has never received consistent enough focus or direction. Outside of forging relationships over years she's the exact opposite of the definition of a Mary Sue. She isn't nor ever have been an author insert character, and a writer being a fan doesn't mean a character is a Mary Sue.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I know this discussion is a bit tired and I have even evolved some on it. I was initially not pleased with Jean's role in HOX, but it did appear Jean was injured in the explosion and she did play an important role in connecting with Xavier. It is funny that some fans downplay this but in the story Monet is used to show that it was a powerful feat and one that Jean didn't think she could pull off on her own and yet she did. Connecting to Xavier at that distance and maintaining a connection with all of the X-men on the station was both useful and powerful.

    Do I wish she came across stronger and more powerful? Of course, but it is what it is. I think the artists expressions on Jean's face helped make her seem scared/weak/distressed. Hickman may have plans for Jean or this is just how he sees her. She didn't do much in X-men 1 either. But I'm still hopeful. Next week we will have X-force 1 and maybe she will be portrayed better there.

    I still want to see why Jean and Quentin are omega telepaths. They both need feats or situations for them to show and not tell us how powerful these two are. More often than not we are told how powerful Jean is and they don't always show us especially when it comes to her telepathy (though she does have a lot of great feats- I've been looking at the respect thread on comic vine).

    Like most of you though, I just want her to be confident and have strong resolve. Both are more important than feats, but it would be nice for Jean and Quinton to have some awesome displays of their omega level telepathy.
    The biggest problems with HOX/POX and Jean is Hickman could have EASILY done better, that series is an assortment of characters moments getting to shine. Show off their badassery and many without even lifting a finger, it frustrating further because of how many characters he used those series to re-establish, yet his Jean is and continues to be overtly passive in ways Jean has not been since at least the 60's. There's no fire or edge, with his Jean you push her and she tips over instead of unleashing a furnace of her fury. What she did was indeed impressive the execution was atrocious, you put ANY other telepath or senior X-men in that spot and guarantee they would have had something with a little more meat. She was helpless, hapless, and borderline pathetic, which is a shame she was sending her thoughts millions of miles which is impressive however how it was written, was not!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Ah, Gotcha!

    How do you think Jean's TK power compares in power to Invisible Woman Sue Force Field?

    Also, Sue has been underwater and her control of her field was so precise she could even filter in oxygen molecules to breathe. Do you think Jean could do that?

    Just recently she's done so twice, in X-men Red Taylor had her submerge herself 2000 feet to talk with Namor using only TK as her life support system. Same when Nova had her minions attack Searebro, Jean was able to hold a massive tower in place while keeping herself, Gentle, and Storm protected.
    Last edited by Celestialbodies; 11-01-2019 at 08:17 AM.

  6. #8241
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    :



    This she's never the POV character often times in team books, more importantly many writers don't think of her so she plays the peripheral the problem is she ends up not very active and comes off passive and menial. A stark contrast imo of how Jean should be written, more specifically I agree she should have a presence, when that's absence so is her character voice.






    Disagree if this is the criteria for what's a Mary Sue a case could be made for most the X-men. Nova didn't bend over Jean simply had a "better plan", no different than how she was defeated in NXM.



    Honestly, it's a label thrust at anyone a reader doesn't like, around 09' it was at it;s high on these boards. Jean has never been a Mary Sue as she has never received consistent enough focus or direction. Outside of forging relationships over years she's the exact opposite of the definition of a Mary Sue. She isn't nor ever have been an author insert character, and a writer being a fan doesn't mean a character is a Mary Sue.



    The biggest problems with HOX/POX and Jean is Hickman could have EASILY done better, that series is an assortment of characters moments getting to shine. Show off their badassery and many without even lifting a finger, it frustrating further because of how many characters he used those series to re-establish, yet his Jean is and continues to be overtly passive in ways Jean has not been since at least the 60's. There's no fire or edge, with his Jean you push her and she tips over instead of unleashing a furnace of her fury. What she did was indeed impressive the execution was atrocious, you put ANY other telepath or senior X-men in that spot and guarantee they would have had something with a little more meat. She was helpless, hapless, and borderline pathetic, which is a shame she was sending her thoughts millions of miles which is impressive however how it was written, was not!!




    Just recently she's done so twice, in X-men Red Taylor had her submerge herself 2000 feet to talk with Namor using only TK as her life support system. Same when Nova had her minions attack Searebro, Jean was able to hold a massive tower in place while keeping herself, Gentle, and Storm protected.
    Thanks. I thought Jean should be able to do those feats, but I had not seen them. I guess Jean not having Omega TK rattled me, lol.

  7. #8242
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    My take on the Jean in HoX is it was fallout from Phoenix Resurrection. Jean rejected the Phoenix and in doing so, denied a part of herself since Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. Its why Monet told her to try harder not bc Jean is weak but bc Jean is supposed to be stronger but refuses to be. Its why it was so important to have her back in the Marvel Girl outfit bc when she wore it in DPS she was already fighting against part of herself instead of embracing it. And I assume future stories will be abt her reconciling with that aspect of herself and reclaiming that power.
    Maybe Jean edited her own memories or maybe Xavier did. She’s been mentally upset to the point where some suspect XMen Red Jean was killed to be replaced by a clone with edited memories. The same can be said of other XMen.

    We know many of the villains have had their memories edited.
    Last edited by WallStreeter; 11-01-2019 at 08:44 AM.

  8. #8243

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    My take on the Jean in HoX is it was fallout from Phoenix Resurrection. Jean rejected the Phoenix and in doing so, denied a part of herself since Jean is Phoenix and Phoenix is Jean. Its why Monet told her to try harder not bc Jean is weak but bc Jean is supposed to be stronger but refuses to be. Its why it was so important to have her back in the Marvel Girl outfit bc when she wore it in DPS she was already fighting against part of herself instead of embracing it. And I assume future stories will be abt her reconciling with that aspect of herself and reclaiming that power.
    That's an interesting take, but the whole point of her return, Phoenix Resurrection, and X-men Red was the literal opposite of all of this. This was Jean taking back her life on her own terms untied to any other thing or force. The X-men Red established Jean at her strongest unrestricted no longer holding back and fully reveling in her power. This regression didn't start til Hickman, directly following Red she didn't have the best showings but she had presence, Hickman for whatever has decided to go this route. Unfortunately its a mentality shared by many writers and across forms of media, Jean is always cast as the young inexperienced ingenue when she's been a competent hero for decades.

  9. #8244
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    So what do we expect out of Jean in X-force #1? I don't have unrealistic expectations and this is a big cast, but I am hoping that she has something to do. I believe she will put on a cerebro helmet at some point. I hope we get to see Jean interacting with both Sage and Beast in this issue.

    In a book like this you expect the action players like Wolverine, Kid Omega, and Domino to dominate but I am hoping that the intelligence players get room to shine. Percy has indicated they will sometimes see action too.

  10. #8245
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    So what do we expect out of Jean in X-force #1? I don't have unrealistic expectations and this is a big cast, but I am hoping that she has something to do. I believe she will put on a cerebro helmet at some point. I hope we get to see Jean interacting with both Sage and Beast in this issue.

    In a book like this you expect the action players like Wolverine, Kid Omega, and Domino to dominate but I am hoping that the intelligence players get room to shine. Percy has indicated they will sometimes see action too.
    I mean, issue 3's cover is entirely dedicated to Jean and even the conceptual ones were. So I don't think that she, at the least, is going to take a backseat. And similarly Beast is supposed to be one of the co-leaders alongside Wolverine.

    X-Force is an intelligence agency first and foremost, so the intelligence players are just as important if not moreso, and ultimately - even if Sage is involved - Jean is one of the two telepaths that are on the playing field, and the strongest of them in fact. Not only that, but Percy has Jean showing up in Wolverine too: she's going to be important. Just how important remains to be seen, however.

    Also? I still don't think that I like Jean's farewell to the Phoenix in Phoenix Resurrection anymore. At the beginning it was great and I still think that it was written well, but then, I don't think that it matches up to how Jean has been written in the past. I can absolutely understand her wanting to live her own life with her own emotions, pain and what have you, the ability to make her own mistakes, and all that she was asking the Phoenix to do... but I don't think that she needed to "break up" with the Phoenix to do so, and to be frank I don't think that she would have actually wanted to. Jean has been okay with the Phoenix and what it represents, what it did, since the 1980s. She came to terms with Dark Phoenix when she had to face off against the D'Bari in the 90s. Under Claremont, Morrison, Pak, and Kelly she embraced the Phoenix.

    And then Morrison had it become like a natural part of her mutation. It was the natural next step of things, the connection to the Phoenix, and I like the idea that she subconsciously taps into it when she accesses the upper registrar of her powers. Because Jean is literally a part of the Phoenix and vice versa, I feel like the Force is almost like a secondary limb for her, and that without it Jean could, should, and would feel almost... incomplete in a way. As if something important is missing from her personage. And if her being too powerful is a question, then make the Phoenix Force something that Jean only taps into when absolutely necessary like a powerup; I like comparing it to the Avatar State from Avatar: The Last Airbender, or going Super Saiyan, Digivolving, etc. Making the Phoenix usable is not hard.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  11. #8246

  12. #8247
    Incredible Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Lol yellow power siggy.

  13. #8248
    Fantastic Member franckd's Avatar
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    I'm surely in the minority here, but I like this yellow power signature. It's less girly than pink, and it goes so well with her green/yellow suits scheme colors.

  14. #8249
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Nice art and colors, but yellow?

  15. #8250
    Spectacular Member Conor's Avatar
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    Love the yellow power signature. Very refreshing and reminds me of early Ultimate Jean’s yellow bubbly power sig

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