Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Punch Dimension.]

Ah, but if it only stayed in the appreciation thread.

I dont think anyone can say that Jean was written amazingly well under Hickman, anything other than she was ok at best is a stretch. But there's also some leeway as he never really focused in on her. People are waiting to see how she is when he really gives her a voice.

Most of the blowback towards Jean fans complaining has obviously come from frustration via certain posters.

[Punch Dimension.]

I am not trying to prove something to you. I am just commenting on what I noticed for some time now. As someone wrote about, if you are really interested try googling.

Bendis was addressing themes that were much more relevant outside the industry of comics and in a way that was much more controversial. It was generating a lot of talk whatever people agreed/disagreed with him or liked/hated his stories.

Jeen "outing" (not really) Bobby is perhaps one of the best example but that wasn't the only one by far and nearly all his books were generating this kind of discussion in medias. And often outside specialized medias about comics.

So no actual evidence to back up your claims then? Cool.

[PsychoEFrost]

Hickman said that Jean was prominent, when Jean was mostly passable and got demoted.

I'd have to see where Hickman said that, because if he did, he obviously bold-facedly lied. To say that anyone outside of Magneto, Xavier, or Moira got any kind of decent time in HoX/PoX would be incorrect.

So if I'm understanding correctly, it's okay for Cyke fans to complain about Cyke who was literally the driving force behind UXM, and received most if not all the development throughout that several issue run of the flagship run. Because they didn't personally like the take, but fans of Jean should take what their given because she was given even less focus, and her portrayal was literally different from everything she'd done recently?


This is in part why I can't take some fans of Cyke and Emma seriously, their concern isn't their faves being written OOC, it's that while they are being written consistently and as the focus of whatever series their in they just don't like the direction the character is moving in.

My concerns were neither, if X-force could nail Jean while in a supporting role so could Hickman and we should be able to have that conversation especially in the Jean Grey Appreciation Thread.

Jean wasn't the main character of HoX/PoX, she was barely there. That's quite a bit different than having a 12 issue run with Scott as main character, and every single issue was as bad as Jean's portrayal in HoX/PoX or worse. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. He didn't receive ANY development. He was an unlikeable, unrecognizable douche nozzle from the start of the run til the end. Hell, Jean in ONE ISSUE got more development and feats than Scott did in literally the whole run.

[Narasinha]

Your case study is Bleeding Cool's main page, today? BC runs endless X-book articles each week. As do all relevant sites. And I believe it's been considerably more printings than that since HOXPOX began.

I didn't picked today specificaly. I hadn't even checked BC today before posting my feeling. You are going say it's just a coincidence and I was "lucky". I will be the first to admit that I am not assiduously looking for articles about X-Men every day. But it has been months that I regularly remarked to myself that there seemed to be much less X-Men articles. Maybe I just don't have luck and I am always looking when they are not on the main pages anymore, who know.

[Celestialbodies]

Ah, but if it only stayed in the appreciation thread.

I dont think anyone can say that Jean was written amazingly well under Hickman, anything other than she was ok at best is a stretch. But there's also some leeway as he never really focused in on her. People are waiting to see how she is when he really gives her a voice.

Most of the blowback towards Jean fans complaining has obviously come from frustration via certain posters.

On the opposite end, multiple posters have come into this very Discussion Thread to argue a different point...

The issue for me at least is we all agree on that Hickman's Jean, my opinion is based solely on that nothing else, which makes me curious what actual proof does anyone have that she is going to be written better outside or speculation? Many have said "wait and see", but at this point in 1 issue Percy has written a better Jean and if the stiff dialogue from X-men 2 is any indication. I don't see his version of the character being much better in the long-term.

[PsychoEFrost]

On the opposite end, multiple posters have come into this very Discussion Thread to argue a different point...

The issue for me at least is we all agree on that Hickman's Jean, my opinion is based solely on that nothing else, which makes me curious what actual proof does anyone have that she is going to be written better outside or speculation? Many have said "wait and see", but at this point in 1 issue Percy has written a better Jean and if the stiff dialogue from X-men 2 is any indication. I don't see his version of the character being much better in the long-term.

I don't think anyone will argue that Hickman's characters and dialogue feel robotic and stiff. The X-Men 2 preview is hard to read, frankly.

[powerpax]

I will be the first to admit that I am not assiduously looking for articles about X-Men every day.

No, I think you're very invested in the Bendis run. Fine, you're entitled to that. But the only 'mainstream' press it ever got (if that) was when Bobby got outed. Further, sales and press for the current run are much bigger.

[powerpax]

I don't think anyone will argue that Hickman's characters and dialogue feel robotic and stiff.

I will, but you knew that. I don't have a problem with Scott bantering with his kids. Hickman often does dramatic pronouncements side by side with human interaction.

[Narasinha]

So no actual evidence to back up your claims then? Cool.

I am not claiming anything. I am stating my feeling. I am not owning you anything. If you are interested, do your own search. If you aren't, I don't care. You don't have to feel the same as me.

[spirit2011]

I'd have to see where Hickman said that, because if he did, he obviously bold-facedly lied. To say that anyone outside of Magneto, Xavier, or Moira got any kind of decent time in HoX/PoX would be incorrect.
.

he said it on Jean x-men monday on AiPT

[PsychoEFrost]

I will, but you knew that. I don't have a problem with Scott bantering with his kids. Hickman often does dramatic pronouncements side by side with human interaction.

I am willing to bet the amount of times Rachel has called Scott "father" (or Jean "mother") before X-Men 2 (2019) is below four. She's always used more casual dialogue with them (Mom, Dad, etc).

[powerpax]

I am willing to bet the amount of times Rachel has called Scott "father" (or Jean "mother") before X-Men 2 (2019) is below four. She's always used more casual dialogue with them (Mom, Dad, etc).

I can live with that. The rest I like just fine.

[PsychoEFrost]

he said it on Jean x-men monday on AiPT

So he lied while being a hype man, and Jean fans should be upset about that. That sucks to have the head writer telling lies to sell his stories.

And no, I am serious. This is not sarcasm, though I can see how it reads like it. Hickman lying to Jean fans to hype them for HoX/PoX is really gross.

[Celestialbodies]

I'd have to see where Hickman said that, because if he did, he obviously bold-facedly lied. To say that anyone outside of Magneto, Xavier, or Moira got any kind of decent time in HoX/PoX would be incorrect.



Jean wasn't the main character of HoX/PoX, she was barely there. That's quite a bit different than having a 12 issue run with Scott as main character, and every single issue was as bad as Jean's portrayal in HoX/PoX or worse. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. He didn't receive ANY development. He was an unlikeable, unrecognizable douche nozzle from the start of the run til the end. Hell, Jean in ONE ISSUE got more development and feats than Scott did in literally the whole run.

Here's the thing, across several threads there are posters on this forum have said that the above excuses you're giving for Scott was the reason Jean fans were upset, it wasn't. What's mind boggling is, you're telling me that not only was Cyke advertised as the lead of a TEAM BOOK, but was the driving force behind the narrative across 12 issues but the concern was he wasn't being written as "Rightlops" so his fans were upset. And then elaborating further that Jean had even less of a role in HOX/POX two series, and a new number one flagship which Cyke is headlining , yet I'm the one not getting it?

This is my problem with some readers I don't need Jean as a lead I'm saying can she be written consistently...

[PsychoEFrost]

Here's the thing, across several threads there are posters on this forum have said that the above excuses you're giving for Scott was the reason Jean fans were upset, it wasn't. What's mind boggling is, you're telling me that not only was Cyke advertised as the lead of a TEAM BOOK, but was the driving force behind the narrative across 12 issues but the concern was he wasn't being written as "Rightlops" so his fans were upset. And then elaborating further that Jean had even less of a role in HOX/POX two series, and a new number one flagship which Cyke is headlining , yet I'm the one not getting it?

This is my problem with some readers I don't need Jean as a lead I'm saying can she be written consistently...

It has nothing to do with "RightClops". He was written with zero leadership abilities whatsoever. Zero combat ability whatsoever. He was written as a gutless, mealy-mouthed suicidally depressed idiot. There was nothing other than his appearance to indicate that this Scott is from any X-Men comics in their whole history, outside of maybe Tyke.