Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[ThePhoenix]

In the 90s both Jean and Scott (together) popped into Wolvie's book. I think the same thing will happen again.

[spirit2011]

I didn't hear about this, what coming outs were axed?

Gabby, and then Betsy coming out on Age of x-man. There is probably a lot more that we don't know.

Here's the thing: canonizing it damages all characters involved. Once it's made canon, something like this would be difficult to take back; say after Hickman is done the next writer doesn't want to deal with the polyamory, he just wants to write Scott and Jean together as a married couple or Logan with Mariko or Emma with Sean or someone else, or any of these characters together exclusively with one another. You can easily say that they just stopped with an open relationship but that won't be satisfying, and it isn't how polyamory works. So if Marvel is going to hint at it, it's best if they just keep it as that... hints. It's different than Iceman coming out because that didn't intrinsically change the character from being who he is and because it made no real difference in regards to his major love interests - of which he's not really had any.

For me all these realtionships got solved recently. Jean wasn't into Logan, nor Scott was into Emma anymore. People got out of the sense of logic to explain this poly being even possible "oh they died so they are different now" crap explanation.

And it has the effects of expanding into other relationships and franchise. Colossus will choose Kitty or Domino? who cares if he can have the two. (just a example, kittylossus seems over). Just end the engagement of readers and that is why Marvel love some drama

[phoenixzero23]

This looks awesome
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/N50Ym1
gustave-besnard-beauty-color.jpg
gustave-besnard-pose-color.jpg

[Harpsikord]

For me all these realtionships got solved recently. Jean wasn't into Logan, nor Scott was into Emma anymore. People got out of the sense of logic to explain this poly being even possible "oh they died so they are different now" crap explanation.

Rosenberg put a definitive cap on it but almost everything that was written in the last year doesn't exactly matter. So far all that has is Mr & Mrs X.

[phoenixzero23]

Gabby, and then Betsy coming out on Age of x-man. There is probably a lot more that we don't know.

Gabby and Betsy have story that indicate sexual attraction for women but do you have a source about they coming out on Age of X-man?

[spirit2011]

Rosenberg put a definitive cap on it but almost everything that was written in the last year doesn't exactly matter. So far all that has is Mr & Mrs X.

Well that is selective memory from hickman. Scott and Emma haven't been together for years and Scott never wanted to get back.
He is basically ignoring 7 years.

It's ridiculous

[Celestialbodies]

I would think so. I expect Jean to guest star every now and then in Wolverine's book, kind of like she did through the 90's.

I'm not sure how I would feel if they are actually romantic. I guess I would wait and see. I do like their friendship. I think it is good that Jean remains friends with both Logan and Scott I think that should be it for now.
I love that Jean and Wolverine are on the same team (even though Jean isn't on his side of things and will be on Beast's team).

Speaking of Jean, I wonder how they will show her balance her duties in X-force and her duties on the ruling council. Though they may skip that, I mean Storm is on the ruling council but also finds time to tag along with Kitty Pryde on a boat out to sea.

This is what I want to see from Jean/Logan I want an actual meaningful friendship to develop between them I want to see these two people who love each and respect one another interact. I feel like many of their substantial interactions involve some catalyst forcing them into a dire situation. I'm interested in more, if it evolves into a full relationship I don't care I just want to see how they relate to each other now as the people they are.

[spirit2011]

Gabby and Betsy have story that indicate sexual attraction for women but do you have a source about they coming out on Age of X-man?

it was someone that posted on twitter. Of course it is all anonymous or they get blacklisted
Now I also remember Asmus talking about Gambit being Bi and getting axed.

This is what I want to see from Jean/Logan I want an actual meaningful friendship to develop between them I want to see these two people who love each and respect one another interact. I feel like many of their substantial interactions involve some catalyst forcing them into a dire situation. I'm interested in more, if it evolves into a full relationship I don't care I just want to see how they relate to each other now as the people they are.

Wolverine and Jean friendship was the best thing from Morrison's run

[phoenixzero23]

it was someone that posted on twitter. Of course it is all anonymous or they get blacklisted
Now I also remember Asmus talking about Gambit being Bi and getting axed.

I would actually like a bi Gambit but I don't think it is happening.
Gabby would be cool but I don't know how do things work between kids and sexuality on media on the US to be honest.

[spirit2011]

I would actually like a bi Gambit but I don't think it is happening.
Gabby would be cool but I don't know how do things work between kids and sexuality on media on the US to be honest.

There is gay characters on cartoons, and is easy to see kids kissing other kids on media. Sure there would be hipocrisy, but Tom was trying to write Gabby only having crushes. Editors didn't let him show that she was married to a man or woman on the future.

[Havok83]

i'm trying to prepare myself, but if happens I still think I'm gonna be pissed. I can't help


iceman was on movies, but he is hardly a well popular character. Me and my friends on school talked about Logan, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler, mystique, Sabertooth, storm. All without reading comics.
he being gay doesn't change a lot, the character finally had a coming of (late) age and something going for him.Only some fanboys that from nowhere became #1 fans of Bobby

Now 3 of the most popular characters on a poly is completely different than simply outing a character that isn't ingrained into popular imaginary. Marvel completely open the doors to some story telling that breaks the Marvel way.

i think the worse of all this teasing is folks thinking that Logan and Scott gonna happen, and all saying that Jean is a beard. Lots of misoginy display

Iceman is an A-lister and was in most of the videogames and a good number of cartoons, not to mention the films as you said. He isnt Wolverine levels of well known but he is just as known as most of those characters you list. You say he coming out changes nothing but thats bc we are several years removed from that. There was a big backlash when it was done bc of the "irreversible damage" Marvel was doing to him which ultimately was just fans fears. Marvel didnt care.

I dont think the trio in a poly situation destroys any of them but it will do damage to Scott/Jean as a couple which Marvel already did. Again there was a time people couldnt fathom him cheating on her and then he did. Him having an ongoing psychic affair with Emma while married is a far cry from flirting with Betsy. Marvel as a company has changed and we've seen them change the lenghs at which they'd take their main characters

Gabby, and then Betsy coming out on Age of x-man. There is probably a lot more that we don't know.

Betsy was never gonna come out during AoX. Leah Williams sees Betsy as bi and specifially did not have her in a romance with a female in AoX bc that would make it too easy for fans to dismiss it as not canon bc it was an AU much like we've done with Jean and Bishop

[spirit2011]

Iceman is an A-lister and was in most of the videogames and a good number of cartoons, not to mention the films as you said. He isnt Wolverine levels of well known but he is just as known as most of those characters you list. You say he coming out changes nothing but thats bc we are several years removed from that. There was a big backlash when it was done bc of the "irreversible damage" Marvel was doing to him which ultimately was just fans fears. Marvel didnt care.

I dont think the trio in a poly situation destroys any of them but it will do damage to Scott/Jean as a couple which Marvel already did. Again there was a time people couldnt fathom him cheating on her and then he did. Him having an ongoing psychic affair with Emma while married is a far cry from flirting with Betsy. Marvel as a company has changed and we've seen them change the lenghs at which they'd take their main characters

I don't consider Iceman as A-lister. He showed up a lot, but I don't think he registered on popular imaginary as Wolverine. As in comics, he is mostly there.
Mostly of fans saw it coming a long way.
There was nothing to lose here, he wasn't a money maker and the company gained diversity points. This was like DC saying Allan Scott was gay, basically nothing to lose.

They have been on this triangle for so long, just for now try poly? this is damaging in every way.
they could be all together instead of fighting.

I don't think marvel changed anything. They are the same corporate structure commanded by disney executives.

Betsy was never gonna come out during AoX. Leah Williams sees Betsy as bi and specifially did not have her in a romance with a female in AoX bc that would make it too easy for fans to dismiss it as not canon bc it was an AU much like we've done with Jean and Bishop

They were the same characters, even Betsy body insecurity will come to play on Excalibur.
it is just a matter of editors and writers ignoring, like it was Bishop and Jean.

[Havok83]

I don't consider Iceman as A-lister. He showed up a lot, but I don't think he registered on popular imaginary as Wolverine. As in comics, he is mostly there.
Mostly of fans saw it coming a long way.
There was nothing to lose here, he wasn't a money maker and the company gained diversity points. This was like DC saying Allan Scott was gay, basically nothing to lose.

They have been on this triangle for so long, just for now try poly? this is damaging in every way.
they could be all together instead of fighting.

I don't think marvel changed anything. They are the same corporate structure commanded by disney executives.

Marvel has changed. The people running the company are not the same ones that were running it 30 years ago. Whenever there is change on top, we see it reflected in the books ant the current crop are far more liberal than previous ones

They were the same characters, even Betsy body insecurity will come to play on Excalibur.
it is just a matter of editors and writers ignoring, like it was Bishop and Jean.

Im relaying to you what the writer herself said. Betsy coming out wasnt nixxed by Marvel. She chose not to write that story for the exact reasons I wrote. She felt that if and when its canonized, it needs to happen in a way that people cant dismiss it

[phoenixzero23]

Marvel has changed. The people running the company are not the same ones that were running it 30 years ago. Whenever there is change on top, we see it reflected in the books ant the current crop are far more liberal than previous ones

I think it is enterely posible that is what Marvel is going to do. That kind of relationships aren't wrong but I just don't think it is a wise move for these particular characters.
(I also feel nobody is thinking seriously about the consecuences on the long run)

[spirit2011]

Marvel has changed. The people running the company are not the same ones that were running it 30 years ago. Whenever there is change on top, we see it reflected in the books ant the current crop are far more liberal than previous ones

Alan Fine and Dan buckley are working on Marvel since 2000s, at least what I remember. Perlmutter still is the Marvel chairman.
Marvel got more liberal, but so is DC because of the market. But both are still very conservatives about their IP

Im relaying to you what the writer herself said. Betsy coming out wasnt nixxed by Marvel. She chose not to write that story for the exact reasons I wrote. She felt that if and when its canonized, it needs to happen in a way that people cant dismiss it

It's normal writers cover for editor and big bosses.
One way or another, we won't see Betsy coming out so soon. Maybe if Kwannon take off as character

We have seen many rumours and in the knows about Marvel not outing not even minor characters

I think it is enterely posible that is what Marvel is going to do. That kind of relationships aren't wrong but I just don't think it is a wise move for these particular characters.
(I also feel nobody is thinking seriously about the consecuences on the long run)

They can't go back from that. Out a character is easier, because you don't change a lot on your storytelling. The character will just date the same sex.
Scott, Logan and Jean are Marvel's cash cows. It would be a big irresponsability.
These aren't even characters with personalities or a story on poly. it is already dragging the story.