Jean Grey: Marvel Girl, Phoenix Appreciation 2019

[Havok83]

The phoenix can be a character in her own whitout Jean , and would be very difficult to retcon. The same issue that introducts the first hints about the conection of the Phoenix and the Avengers is the issue where Quentin gets his phoenix fragment and the phoenix begins his search of Jean grey that leads to Phoenix Ressurection.

The histories are very linked there. Making the phoenix of the avengers an imposter would make the phoenix that ressurected jean grey an imposter too.

I dont have a problem with that bc its not like PR really added anything to the Phoenix mythos besides sever Jean's tie to it. That being dismissed as an imposter and Jean bonding with the one true PF in a future story wouldnt be the worst thing to happen.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The irony is that the Phoenix was created to be a girl on par with Thor. Unfortunately, the boys club of recent history gets very touchy about Jean and her being powerful.

As for reducing the nonsense, it'd be easy enough to say that all the stuff with the writers making their favorite characters the Phoenix, from Cyclops and Emma to Thor, was actually just confused Phoenix fragments.

[starduck]

The irony is that the Phoenix was created to be a girl on par with Thor. Unfortunately, the boys club of recent history gets very touchy about Jean and her being powerful.

As for reducing the nonsense, it'd be easy enough to say that all the stuff with the writers making their favorite characters the Phoenix, from Cyclops and Emma to Thor, was actually just confused Phoenix fragments.

I've also read that Marvel wouldn't let Claremont use Silver Surfer because they didn't want him beaten by a girl so he used Firelord instead to show Jean's new power. Also, I think Jean doesn't need the Phoenix anymore, she's very powerful without it. Long live Pink Jean

[WallStreeter]

Jason Aaron probably hates the idea of powerful female characters. He wrote Jane/Thor, but beyond that he generally doesn't deal with powerful female characters. He wanted Quentin to be Phoenix and when that was nixed in an alternate future he made Wolverine and then Thor Phoenix.

King Thor (old King Thor) happens in Aaron's future and not regular 616. Not even worth retconning. Just ignore it and don't even waste money on supporting such stupidity.

[WallStreeter]

Really if the X-Office would get comfortable writing Jean as Phoenix and as a leading character Aaron would not be able to do his stupidity. A lot of progress was being made with teen Jean which got totally undone with the return of Adult Jean. Teen Jean had major fights when she took out opponents, adult Jean had none of that. Adult Jean did not manifest the pink form or powers.

At least she brought Xavier back without cerebro. But she needs major combat showing, and yes she does need to be Phoenix again. Holding out for MCU.

[franckd]

The irony is that the Phoenix was created to be a girl on par with Thor. Unfortunately, the boys club of recent history gets very touchy about Jean and her being powerful.

As for reducing the nonsense, it'd be easy enough to say that all the stuff with the writers making their favorite characters the Phoenix, from Cyclops and Emma to Thor, was actually just confused Phoenix fragments.

Yeah, some big boys @ Marvel surely hate when a woman is powerful. Especially Jean Grey. When I think that we're almost in 2020, I realize that "poor Jean" can't Phoenix, because she's a woman. Sorry, I am wrong. According to Marvel, right now Jean is a girl. A Marvel girl, sure. Yet, just a girl. A poor little girl crying in space, unable to fight, unable to control her powers, or unable to stay sane (or alive) when she's Phoenix...

So writers keeps taking it from her, to give it to their male favorites. Thor, Logan, Cyclops,... And they fail, all the time. Because the Phoenix will always be Jean's in people's mind.
Writers can do whatever they want (and they tried) they will never succeed to replace Jean, in people's mind, as the most iconic, the most famous Phoenix incarnation.

[starduck]

Before the Phoenix returns to where it belongs. I'd like to see this ability explored more. It's practically been retconned out

[PowerPlay25]

It also got busy with Odin!

I would love if this led to interaction between Thor and Jean. A universal force that has an eternal affinity for Jean, should have her on the radar of every powerful character in the MU. A power Jean wants nothing to do with (as it literally is the reason her entire family was murdered) but who is frequently called on, when questions come up about it. And Odin could have an attachment to Jean, in memory of what he and his Pre-Historic Phoenix had together.

I hate the Phoenix and it kills any interest I have in the Jean Grey character but, using Jean as a Phoenix subject authority is something I can stomach. But sometimes I feel like the only person on this thread that isn't overly concerned with Jean's Power displays, I am more interested in her as a character.

I swear I saw a fan fiction that had Odin wanting to betroth Thor and Jean.

[phoenixzero23]

I don't think Hickman will use Jean as Phoenix. The only mention so far was on a data page and a tease on the Mark Brooks cover but that was Rachel.
Hope I'm wrong and maybe he does.

[loke13]

The phoenix can be a character in her own whitout Jean , and would be very difficult to retcon. The same issue that introducts the first hints about the conection of the Phoenix and the Avengers is the issue where Quentin gets his phoenix fragment and the phoenix begins his search of Jean grey that leads to Phoenix Ressurection.

The histories are very linked there. Making the phoenix of the avengers an imposter would make the phoenix that ressurected jean grey an imposter too.

The beautiful thing about retcons is that they don't always have to make 100 percent sense.

[MechaJeanix]

I think it is unfortunate that the pink form was abandoned. If you recall in an early X-men Monday column JDW said Jean could still do it but she chooses not to and that it is something she just remembers doing when she was younger. Which story-wise it made no sense for Jean not to use her "power-up" against X-man or any psionic.

Jean's development from Teen Jean went away, and the same was true of Beast (Teen Beast used magic), Angel reverted back too. The only two that remained different were Cyclops (change in perspective) and Iceman (who came to terms with his sexuality).

I love Jean as Phoenix (it has a special place in my heart lol) but I also love Jean without it. I like that she is powerful with or without the Phoenix. I don't see the Phoenix as taking something away from her (I don't know why fans act like it does) I see it as her being closer to her authentic self.

But even without it she's a powerful omega mutant and at least in theory she has her pink form where she can use that omega telepathic energy to boost her tk powers.

[spirit2011]

The irony is that the Phoenix was created to be a girl on par with Thor. Unfortunately, the boys club of recent history gets very touchy about Jean and her being powerful.

As for reducing the nonsense, it'd be easy enough to say that all the stuff with the writers making their favorite characters the Phoenix, from Cyclops and Emma to Thor, was actually just confused Phoenix fragments.

Marvel really have a big problem with popular and powerful female characters. Things have been changing lately, but they did a heck of damage to characters like Carol and Wanda.
Jean got the phoenix and was killed after it.

The best way is saying that after Jean died, phoenix fragmented. that is why so many people were able to use it

[hulkling]

Teen Jean was powerfull enought without the phoenix to punch Galactus, dont blame Aaron that the writters dont want to feature her as a powerful character that would put her over Cyclops.

Aaron created a lot of female powerful characters while Hickman is the one who transformed the Xmen in Cyclops solo.

[phoenixzero23]

Aaron created a lot of female powerful characters while Hickman is the one who transformed the Xmen in Cyclops solo.

Nope, Aaron is the one who has denigrated the phoenix mythos the most on the last years, the only good thing he did was Jane Foster
and the disguised Cyclops solos have been a thing long before Hickman

[hulkling]

Nope, Aaron is the one who has denigrated the phoenix mythos the most on the last years, the only god thing he did was Jane Foster
and the disguised Cyclops solos have been a thing long before Hickman

But you dont want phoenix mytos , you want the phoenix to be a power up for Jean Grey . Not a character in her own. Like some venom fans wanted Venom as a power up for Eddie brock without voice or personality and once Marvel gave him his own voice and story we have the best Venom run of his story.

The Phoenix can join again with jean but wanting the character wainting in the space until there is a story related with Jean grey doesnt make any sense.