Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[lancer]

Are you kidding me? Scott was the star of Morrison's run. Scott became very popular with Morrison's run.. At the time, at least the online Cyclops fans raved about Scott's characterization in New X-men. I can vouch because I posted on this board during the New X-men years.

Cyclops shined in New X-men and I recall a lot of love from Scott fans. The only people I recall that were unhappy were some of the more aggressive shipper types... Scott/Emma as a couple became very popular but it all started with New X-men.

Don't know if I'd call him the star, but Morrison stated several times that he was his favorite X Man. I remember a whole bunch more than a few Cyclops fans who disliked it Not necessarily saying the majorit, though . Myself, I hated it enough to drop the X books and Scott had been my favorite X Man since I started reading. It was related to Jean, but not directly the reason. It was what I thought the affair did to the integrity of the character. There were a couple other things Morrison had him do that I didn't care for either. I did like his depiction in the arc with Cassandra, as Xavier, on the Shiar ship.

One thing. I don't confuse my feelings for Morrison's X Men run with how I think the majority felt. As the issues came out, across multiple forums, I have little doubt that the clear majority of people posting liked it. However, the people who didn't like it tended to REALLY dislike it. What matters is sales And while it was the top selling X book his sales dropped off a lot. A lot more than someone with that name's sales should have dropped off. They went way back up for his last arc. I attributed that to Silvestri coming back Whedon lost sales too. Not like that. He stabalized as a lot higher number. Anecdotally, I figured it was a combination of 2 things. Morrison brought on new readers because he was Grant Morrison. Yet might have driven off some long time readers. Not just Jott. It's not like that was the only controversial thing he did

Bottom line, like it or not, a whole lot of people did like it. Some of them comics creators who wound up on the X books.

[lancer]

and imo I could never support that ship given how it got started. Bu..

That's me. Freely acknowledge that I didn't give it a chance. I never critique how they were actually handled because, other than ENDSONG, I didn't read any of it. I saw some pages online. Seemed like a lot of bedroom scenes. Didn't matter either way I don't care how you write them. Said this I don't know how many times. Write them as Wars and June Cleaver, write them as Al and Peg Bundy, write them anything in between. I don't care because all I'd ever see is the origin. Plus, in all candor, I had zero interest in seeing him with anyone but Jean. Still, there is a big difference in indifference and something you intensely dislike.

[Ulfhammer]

There was nothing about Morrison’s run that did anything positive for Scott. That’s just the truth and even more self-evident given the theme of the thread we are posting in. Let’s not gloss over how distasteful this run was. Morrison could have done what he wanted without pulling Scott into a moral abyss but clearly that was his point.

[phoenixzero23]

There was nothing about Morrison’s run that did anything positive for Scott. That’s just the truth and even more self-evident given the theme of the thread we are posting in. Let’s not gloss over how distasteful this run was. Morrison could have done what he wanted without pulling Scott into a moral abyss but clearly that was his point.

You're right. I hate defining their relationship by that.
This is what is is to me
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[PrezValentine]

Are you kidding me? Scott was the star of Morrison's run. Scott became very popular with Morrison's run.. At the time, at least the online Cyclops fans raved about Scott's characterization in New X-men. I can vouch because I posted on this board during the New X-men years.

Cyclops shined in New X-men and I recall a lot of love from Scott fans. The only people I recall that were unhappy were some of the more aggressive shipper types... Scott/Emma as a couple became very popular but it all started with New X-men.

Most of Scott's characterization on New X-Men is absolutely negative, though, while Jean and Xavier had way more panel time and development than him. He doesn't even work as the so-called self-insert some people call him since he had literally zero redeeming qualities through the whole thing, except for maybe the moment he decided to kick Xorn's ass.

[Omega Alpha]

Most of Scott's characterization on New X-Men is absolutely negative, though, while Jean and Xavier had way more panel time and development than him. He doesn't even work as the so-called self-insert some people call him since he had literally zero redeeming qualities through the whole thing, except for maybe the moment he decided to kick Xorn's ass.

Quite the opposite- I don't think Scott's portrayal is meant to be negative at all- some fans might dislike his relationship with Emma or the end of his relationship with Jean, but Morrison is clearly empathetic: he's a man who went through unimaginable horror, which led to him completely reevaluate his life, and, at the end of his run, though not without help from Phoenix and Emma, comes out stronger and ready to lead the X-men. While it's not a better portrayal than Whedon or the Messiah era, the latter would not be possible without it.

[phoenixzero23]

Quite the opposite- I don't think Scott's portrayal is meant to be negative at all- some fans might dislike his relationship with Emma or the end of his relationship with Jean, but Morrison is clearly empathetic: he's a man who went through unimaginable horror, which led to him completely reevaluate his life, and, at the end of his run, though not without help from Phoenix and Emma, comes out stronger and ready to lead the X-men. While it's not a better portrayal than Whedon or the Messiah era, the latter would not be possible without it.

My emma/scemma hate has diminished a little over the years but still...
Imagine if that happened with Scemma, that some writer didn't like it and then decided to break them in a ugly way but before said writer blames every of the characters problems on the relationship and also makes sure they can't never come back.
that's what morrison did and why i don't like it.

[PrezValentine]

Quite the opposite- I don't think Scott's portrayal is meant to be negative at all- some fans might dislike his relationship with Emma or the end of his relationship with Jean, but Morrison is clearly empathetic: he's a man who went through unimaginable horror, which led to him completely reevaluate his life, and, at the end of his run, though not without help from Phoenix and Emma, comes out stronger and ready to lead the X-men. While it's not a better portrayal than Whedon or the Messiah era, the latter would not be possible without it.

I should have phrased better, but I meant "negative for most people". Anything coming from Scott is dismissed as whining or being exaggerated. Jean's whole view of him (with even Emma pointing out that she "despised him for his weakness"), the fact that she never seemed actually hurt by the whole thing (since she only had that homicidal rage against Emma but during the time Scott was missing didn't seem to care about him or feel anything about the affair anymore), and Jean was the star of the whole run, basically. I know that arc was necessary or Scott wouldn't be half the leader he became, and Morrison's take might be seen as empathetic, but overall it's shown in quite the negative light.

[Omega Alpha]

I'm not saying you have to like it, was just pointing out his portrayal is not unsympathetic at all. Morrison clearly relates to him.

[Omega Alpha]

I should have phrased better, but I meant "negative for most people". Anything coming from Scott is dismissed as whining or being exaggerated. Jean's whole view of him (with even Emma pointing out that she "despised him for his weakness"), the fact that she never seemed actually hurt by the whole thing (since she only had that homicidal rage against Emma but during the time Scott was missing didn't seem to care about him or feel anything about the affair anymore), and Jean was the star of the whole run, basically. I know that arc was necessary or Scott wouldn't be half the leader he became, and Morrison's take might be seen as empathetic, but overall it's shown in quite the negative light.

But that doesn't make him look bad: in fact, the fact that Jean can be so inhuman because of the Phoenix proves he has a point in moving away from her.

[phoenixzero23]

But that doesn't make him look bad: in fact, the fact that Jean can be so inhuman because of the Phoenix proves he has a point in moving away from her.

That was not the message most fans got from it. It only created an unreasonable amount of Cyclops haters.

[Omega Alpha]

That was not the message most fans got from it. It only created an unreasonable amount of Cyclops haters.

Scott always had haters, because he opposes the franchise designated cool guy. It also created lots of fans.

[phoenixzero23]

Scott always had haters, because he opposes the franchise designated cool guy. It also created lots of fans.

Most Wolverine fans here like Cyclops and most Cyclops fans here like Wolverine too. Most Cyclops hate comes from the usual relationship drama and Morrison run were Logan had very little to do. In fact he is almost not mentioned.

[KangMiRae]

Wow, based on today’s issue it looks like it won’t be Jott going forward, but Jean/Bishop even in 616. That’s a bummer. I wonder if Hickman requested this shift hmmm

[PrezValentine]

I mean, we all knew that from the beginning of the year. It's just coming to fruition now. I doubt it has anything to do with Hickman, since I don't know his feelings on Jean/Scott, but who knows.
Point is, this was quite predictable. So better prepare for a bittersweet reunion in the Omega.