Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Del torro]

Absolutely!

And I will try to make an effort to be fair. I've seen a lot of people being overly petty about this movie, going out of their way to hate it for reasons that are petty. I see those same people making every possible excuse for an MCU movie, no matter what the flaws may be. That's just how some people are wired.

But based on everything I've read and seen about Dark Phoenix, I think there's a lot to like about it. I'm going in with a genuinely hopeful attitude and yes, that will probably influence me. But I will still try to be balanced in my assessment. That, I can promise.

After Apocalypse, I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I'll watch it as an X-men and Jean grey fan, but not expecting it to be one of the best movies this year. I still remember all the hype I had for apocalypse.

[Lokimaru]

Hope the apple crates get a credit in this one cause they worked their asses off.

[Retcon]

He’s 5’7 she’s 5’9 those he’s probably wearing lifts. She towers over everyone in GOT as well.

[Cyke]

He’s 5’7 she’s 5’9 those he’s probably wearing lifts. She towers over everyone in GOT as well.

It's kinda cute, in anticipation of the Season 8 premiere my friends and I logically rewatched the very first episode, and she's noticeably shorter there. A growth spurt within 8 years is bound to happen but it's less noticeable gradually.

[Rayman2018]

When they redo the x men movies 5 years from now I actually want a damn actor over 6”2 to star as cyke.

[phoenixzero23]

Cool cover
nothing romantic but it still nice to have them on the same team
D4dETFIUEAAxSm3.jpg

[Ulfhammer]

Loved this part of the trailer. Hope we get some great moments between these two in the movie. X3 did not do this love story justice and it looks like Dark Phoenix will make a genuine attempt to right that. I still suspect it's going to end tragically, just like the original did in the comic. But that's exactly what makes the love story between Scott and Jean so impactful. And if this movie can capture that, it will have done a huge service to this iconic romance and the X-Men franchise.

Emphasis on the "if".

I think it's easy to conflate criticism of a work with pessimism, but if the previews we are getting support that conclusion, it's just criticism. Pessimism would be judging the movie in it's entirety before we've seen it in it's entirety. That said, from what I've seen, there's reason to believe that the movie might miss the boat on this very central element to the DPS.

It's true that there are many themes involved here. Power without restraint, repression becoming expression, self-determination vs fate, what love can and cannot accomplish and the fundamental strength and weakness of human character. These are all central to the story. What's missing is the context, and I fundamentally believe that Claremont used Jean's relationship with Scott (and to a lesser extent the rest of the X-Men and Jean's family) to underline each of these themes in the story. If the movie gives us the what and doesn't convincingly give us the why, it's again failed to effectively translate this story. Although I am reserving final judgement for the finished product, I'm certainly concerned this will be the case based on what the studio has chosen to show us. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but as we saw with the original three movies, simply giving this couple some screen time isn't sufficient and in fact, if poorly done, is worse than ignoring the relationship completely.

I think it's worth acknowledging that this is a tall order. This story is a monster to pack effectively into one movie. The studio chose to take this on though and because of that I will hold them to the standard that Claremont set. I don't need the entire DPS to be represented but they need to hit all the main story beats and frankly, that's asking a lot. Even more so when you consider how little groundwork Apocalypse laid for this.

[MarvelMaster616]

Cool cover
nothing romantic but it still nice to have them on the same team
D4dETFIUEAAxSm3.jpg

Agreed! Love the artwork here. I also like that they're in a more classic set of costumes. Cyclops' looks like a blend of his Astonishing uniform and the one he wore in the 80s. Jean is back to her Marvel Girl form, which I think was one of her best.

It's still hard to say what kind of state they'll be in after Age of X-Man. The covers don't reveal much. They rarely do. But it looks like Hickman is bringing the X-Men's biggest names back under one roof. That means Cyclops and Jean Grey will be working together again. I hope that means we'll get a dramatic reunion. Maybe there will be an epilogue of sorts to Age of X-Man or an annual. Whatever we get, I'm glad they're on the same team again. Even if they don't get back together on the spot, and I don't think they will, just being in close proximity again is enough to reignite that spark. We saw it in Phoenix Resurrection. I hope we can see that here too.

[TheDeadSpace]

Cool cover
nothing romantic but it still nice to have them on the same team
D4dETFIUEAAxSm3.jpg

Yeah, it's nice. It might be small, but it's something. No idea what to expect, but at least they're going to have some form of interaction...maybe.

[Wiccan]

Why would that bother you?

I really like what I saw in the trailer. It looks like Scott and Jean will have some real, dramatic moments together. Those are the kinds of moments that made the original Dark Phoenix Saga so iconic and what makes the Scott/Jean relationship so compelling. We never got those moments in the original trilogy. I'm genuinely thrilled to see that we will likely get those in this movie.

But seriously, why does my attitude upset you? I'm not being facetious or anything. I mean it when I say I loved the trailer and I'm excited about this movie. I get that it's not going to be a panel-for-panel retelling of the comics. No movie ever is. But it doesn't have to be in order to capture the spirit of the story or the Cyclops/Jean romance.

Sorry. I guess it just bothers me that, not matter what is shown, there's always the same comments that this "Oh this shows that it's gonna be amazing and they'll treat Jott and DPS with love and respect" when it only shows that they're doing the bare minimum. And the praise for it not being a sideplot like on X3?.... C'mon, the movie is called DARK PHOENIX! It's not an achievement that Dark Phoenix is the main storyline. Just because they're using it as the main plot doesn't mean it's being done justice. I used to appreciate the positivity but when it's so constant and feels like grasping at straws it ends up being annoying to the more skeptic people(or just me I guess).

[Anodyne]

Why would Cable be imagining that? Kid Cable doesnt even know Maddie and has less of a connection to her than his older self. Its supposed to be canon but Scott and Maddy werent that happy. Even Claremont was writing them as having problems before X-Factor #1

Claremont was probably under editorial orders to pave the way for X-Factor. Scott and Madelyne were happy in X-Men/Alpha Flight.
.

[Glio]

Happy couples are not always happy and unhappy couples are not always arguing. As long as it is not exaggerated to any extreme, both interpretations are valid.

[Ulfhammer]

Claremont was probably under editorial orders to pave the way for X-Factor. Scott and Madelyne were happy in X-Men/Alpha Flight.
.

Shooter specifically devised X-Factor's debut to be outside Claremont's purview because he knew Claremont wouldn't agree with it. CC is on the record as having been entirely against both Jean's resurrection and Scott leaving Maddie. This is a clear both from the issues in question as well as multiple interviews. If you have new information we haven't seen I'd be the first to welcome it, but otherwise Claremont's perspective that Scott belonged with Maddie and Jean was better off dead will stand. Maddie and Scott's marriage was in shambles by X-Factor #1 and that's not a matter of opinion. Frankly it was pretty bad off even before then due to Scott's belief that Maddie was somehow Jean reincarnated, which I get given the obvious parallels between the two.

[Glio]

Shooter specifically devised X-Factor's debut to be outside Claremont's purview because he knew Claremont wouldn't agree with it. CC is on the record as having been entirely against both Jean's resurrection and Scott leaving Maddie. This is a clear both from the issues in question as well as multiple interviews. If you have new information we haven't seen I'd be the first to welcome it, but otherwise Claremont's perspective that Scott belonged with Maddie and Jean was better off dead will stand. Maddie and Scott's marriage was in shambles by X-Factor #1 and that's not a matter of opinion. Frankly it was pretty bad off even before then due to Scott's belief that Maddie was somehow Jean reincarnated, which I get given the obvious parallels between the two.

Scott thinking that Maddie was reincarnated Jean is a curious thing because at the time when that was written he was an insensitive jerk to say it but several retcon later, he was technically right.

[Legaldrugdealer]

Scott thinking that Maddie was reincarnated Jean is a curious thing because at the time when that was written he was an insensitive jerk to say it but several retcon later, he was technically right.

Shooter specifically devised X-Factor's debut to be outside Claremont's purview because he knew Claremont wouldn't agree with it. CC is on the record as having been entirely against both Jean's resurrection and Scott leaving Maddie. This is a clear both from the issues in question as well as multiple interviews. If you have new information we haven't seen I'd be the first to welcome it, but otherwise Claremont's perspective that Scott belonged with Maddie and Jean was better off dead will stand. Maddie and Scott's marriage was in shambles by X-Factor #1 and that's not a matter of opinion. Frankly it was pretty bad off even before then due to Scott's belief that Maddie was somehow Jean reincarnated, which I get given the obvious parallels between the two.

Well the whole Maddie looking like Jean in the beginning was stupid anyways. Claremont didn't get the original ending be wanted for the Dark Phoenix saga and then came up with Maddy. Then I feel like when they brought Jean back, that screwed that up and seems like he's had a vendetta against Scott ever since. I could not stomach that x-men forever storyline where Jean ends up with Logan and then Beast. I could deal with the Logan part, but then beast then be died too. I was joking around who is next,sabertooth? Lol