Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Omega Alpha]

I'll add that Rosenberg mentioned that Scott and Jean must "work" again in their relationship.

Which comes back to what I mentioned- if Hickman wanted them back together at the start of HoX/PoX, this meantime would be the perfect one to have them together., working stuff out, and of course Marvel would be glad to try to get money on the will they/won't they approach. Hence, my conclusion is that he doesn't want them as a couple at the start of the story (which doesn't mean they never will get together eventually)

[MarvelMaster616]

I'll add that Rosenberg mentioned that Scott and Jean must "work" again in their relationship.

And I agree with him. Good relationships at every level take work. Some take more than others. Given everything that has transpired between them since Jean's death in New X-Men, there's plenty of work to be done. But they've made clear that the love is still there and it never truly faded. And that's what will make for some great drama down the line, depending on how things play out under Hickman.

I have to say that I really love your optimism, I'm a really pessimist guy but you get me to think possitive, you are one of the few reason why I'm still reading comics (and I love your fanfics, I must have read the old ones a couple of dozen times each, I still have to catch up with X-men Supreme)

I'm glad my work can help. I had Scott and Jean go through some rough times during X-Men Supreme, as well. That made the romantic moments they shared that much more satisfying.

[v_jeovanne]

Which comes back to what I mentioned- if Hickman wanted them back together at the start of HoX/PoX, this meantime would be the perfect one to have them together., working stuff out, and of course Marvel would be glad to try to get money on the will they/won't they approach. Hence, my conclusion is that he doesn't want them as a couple at the start of the story (which doesn't mean they never will get together eventually)

but it is that their problems will never be solved, also fix things does not sell stories, we can not forget that they are no longer a romantic couple, have been separated for years and put them back together must be taken responsibly, work so that they return to be a of the most important couples of today and on the contrary to separate them definitively should leave us satisfied to avoid clinging to nostalgia.

[JeisonWolf]

Whoa, that’s more than Peter and MJ! It’d be sucky if they never get back together. Maybe this is an effort to keep them separated for when the MCU eventually adapts this style of the X-Men they can avoid Jott?

In any case, I may have lost Jott, and it absolutely has stunted my interest for the upcoming X-Men books significantly, I still have the sweet, comforting warmth of Peter/MJ to fall back onto! Jott and PemJ are just two sides of the same coin!

How much negativism ... but I'm not going to lie, I feel the same. Also today I could finally see Dark Phoenix although it has a few good times Jott was not anything special, I didn't have that feeling of oh yeah Jean and Scott should be together ... they are so cute ... The Hunger Games sold me to Peeta and Katniss this movie doesn't do it with Jott.

I generally avoid getting in the middle of discussions around what writers have said and what readers have speculated and/or gleaned from a few quotes here and there. But I feel like people are making some fairly lofty assumptions about the future of Cyclops/Jean.

What the writers say in interviews rarely amounts to much. Nobody in X-Men Monday indicated that they were in favor of breaking Scott/Jean up for good. Most just favored them being apart for a while and developing on their own. I actually support this. We saw just how great Jean could be on her own in X-Men Red. She and Scott don't have to always be around one another to develop. They can do their own thing and still be a couple. In fact, that's what healthy couples are supposed to do. Sure, a few writers stated that they didn't like the pairing, but it's not like they're the ones determining the future of this relationship. JDW has gone on record as saying Scott is very much Jean's endgame and vice versa. They're an iconic love story and for good reason. Recent comics, going back to Phoenix Resurrection and the O5 X-Men, have only affirmed the strength of their love and on-panel, no less. I think that's a pretty good sign that they're not attempting to utterly undo the relationship, One More Day style.

Age of X-Man is certainly a complication, but there's no hint that there's a deeper romance brewing with Bishop, nor is there any sign that it'll become another messy love triangle. Given that this whole relationship had little substance behind it and only emerged due to extensive reality warping doesn't set it up as a meaningful romance that will blossom. At most, it feels more like a fling. Plus, Bishop has not been on much promotional material for House of X and Powers of X. But there has been plenty of artwork showing Scott and Jean working on the same team with one another. While they may not be together, the fact they're around one another usually means they'll be drawn to one another eventually. That's something X-Men Blue nicely demonstrated in its finale. Logan even acknowledged that in Grant Morrison's run.

I know it has been rough for Scott/Jean fans for many years. But even as they were deconstructed in the comics, their relationship has popped up in many other mediums and remains a critical aspect of the overall X-Men mythos. There's no sign that's changing, but there's plenty to indicate that there will be a fresh batch of drama. And honestly, I'm excited about that because that kind of drama brings out the best in both of them.

I love your optimism, I wish I had the same. But I have to say that being in separate teams is not a good thing, thanks to the movies and the bad reputation that Jott has won in recent years, many fans and writers want them to break their relationship, if Morrison did it at a time when the one that Jott was considered one of Marvel's main couples where they were also married and happy in addition to both being in the same book imagines the ease that writers have to do that nowadays and even worse if they are in separate teams. What Jean and Scott need now is to be closer than ever to be able to re-form a great bond like they had before.

[JeisonWolf]

I wish I had your optimism MarvelMaster. I tried to replicate it, but my fire’s burnt out now.

The same here, sometimes I don't know how he does.

I have to say that I really love your optimism, I'm a really pessimist guy but you get me to think possitive, you are one of the few reason why I'm still reading comics (and I love your fanfics, I must have read the old ones a couple of dozen times each, I still have to catch up with X-men Supreme)

The truth is that he helps a lot, I think that among all the fans of Jott he is the only one that when everything looks dark helps to see some light.
By the way I've also read some of their fanfics, they are great, I read some of Jott wrote before being called MarvelMaster, I have to read X-men supreme but it is very long and I don't know when I can have time hehe.

[lancer]

Yeah they do lol. With regards to peter/mj. I was turned off by the spidey books when they did that gwen and osborn thing bc quesada wouldn't sign off on peter having kids. One more day was kinda the final nail in the coffin. Though I heard the Spencer series is good. So I may pick up the trades

That's what I read. JMS wanted the kids to be Peter and Gwen's and editorial said no. Okay then, drop the idea. Don't make them Gwen and Norman's. And I think that was JMS' idea. Oh, how I detested SINS PAST. Gwen has been dead for how many years. And trashed for what?

While I found OMD anything but palatable, I disliked it less than how Morrison did it. A lot less. Peter and MJ were not my favorite couple. In my top 5, but not at the top. Jott was my favorite.. OMD being the final nail in the coffin applied to me as well. It's when I dropped those books.

I'm really not surprised that they are together again. Marrying again would be the big surprise. Way I remember it, Quesada's mandate was not that Peter and MJ ever be together again, it was that the character should not be married. He didn't the specific Peter/MJ relationship, he conceptually believed that this particular character should not be married.

Morrison's run again. I don't agree that Xavier and Jean overshadowed Scott. Not claiming the reverse was true, either. I also think he had development. I never disputed that. I intensely disliked the development.

Since this is a Jott appreciation thread I wouldn't think there would be that much positive reaction to how Morrison handled the character. However, pose the question in the general Cyclops thread and I suspect there might be some more positive reviews. All I know for sure is, 2001-2004 I saw a pretty fair amount of people happy with how the character was handled.

[Legaldrugdealer]

That's what I read. JMS wanted the kids to be Peter and Gwen's and editorial said no. Okay then, drop the idea. Don't make them Gwen and Norman's. And I think that was JMS' idea. Oh, how I detested SINS PAST. Gwen has been dead for how many years. And trashed for what?

While I found OMD anything but palatable, I disliked it less than how Morrison did it. A lot less. Peter and MJ were not my favorite couple. In my top 5, but not at the top. Jott was my favorite.. OMD being the final nail in the coffin applied to me as well. It's when I dropped those books.

I'm really not surprised that they are together again. Marrying again would be the big surprise. Way I remember it, Quesada's mandate was not that Peter and MJ ever be together again, it was that the character should not be married. He didn't the specific Peter/MJ relationship, he conceptually believed that this particular character should not be married.

Morrison's run again. I don't agree that Xavier and Jean overshadowed Scott. Not claiming the reverse was true, either. I also think he had development. I never disputed that. I intensely disliked the development.

Since this is a Jott appreciation thread I wouldn't think there would be that much positive reaction to how Morrison handled the character. However, pose the question in the general Cyclops thread and I suspect there might be some more positive reviews. All I know for sure is, 2001-2004 I saw a pretty fair amount of people happy with how the character was handled.

Yeah I agree. The Morrison one hurt more. Still can't get over that. Now because of him we have a generation that believes Scott and Jean are toxic and should never be together again

[spirit2011]

That's what I read. JMS wanted the kids to be Peter and Gwen's and editorial said no. Okay then, drop the idea. Don't make them Gwen and Norman's. And I think that was JMS' idea. Oh, how I detested SINS PAST. Gwen has been dead for how many years. And trashed for what?
.

It was Millar idea and then he executed the halfassed idea. Deplorable

[lancer]

Mark Millar? How did he get involved? He wasn't writing any of the Spider books at that time. Just tried a search. Several results say the creative and editorial team collectively decided that it should be Norman. I thought I remembered reading back then that it was JMS. I guess not. Well, it has been close to 15 years.

[spirit2011]

Mark Millar? How did he get involved? He wasn't writing any of the Spider books at that time. Just tried a search. Several results say the creative and editorial team collectively decided that it should be Norman. I thought I remembered reading back then that it was JMS. I guess not. Well, it has been close to 15 years.

It really is JMS, seems like not every disgusting storyline is made by Millar. What a surprise

[Legaldrugdealer]

It really is JMS, seems like not every disgusting storyline is made by Millar. What a surprise

Well he did have ultimate Jean sleep with wolverine almost immediately. That left a bad taste in my mouth too even though she did end up with Scott lol

[Omega Alpha]

Well he did have ultimate Jean sleep with wolverine almost immediately. That left a bad taste in my mouth too even though she did end up with Scott lol

And she was 17, although later the trades "corrected" that and said she was 19.

Anyway, Ult. Wolverine also tried to sleep with 15 year old Mary Jane while in Peter's body. He was just the worst.

[phoenixzero23]

And she was 17, although later the trades "corrected" that and said she was 19.

Anyway, Ult. Wolverine also tried to sleep with 15 year old Mary Jane while in Peter's body. He was just the worst.

He was also Cable. The ultimate universe was messed up.

[Ulfhammer]

Which comes back to what I mentioned- if Hickman wanted them back together at the start of HoX/PoX, this meantime would be the perfect one to have them together., working stuff out, and of course Marvel would be glad to try to get money on the will they/won't they approach. Hence, my conclusion is that he doesn't want them as a couple at the start of the story (which doesn't mean they never will get together eventually)

I'm not really convinced that the "will they or won't they" story lines drive sales or readership generally, especially as it relates to this couple. They've had almost none of it in their their history out side of a handful of Silver Age, early X-Factor and late NXM issues. That's maybe a twenty or so issues in a half century. I don't think many were reading those issues for that specific reason.

There was a question as to whether they were going to get married or not through the late 80's and early 90's but there were very few periods where their relationship itself was in question, only what form it would take. It seems like more of a style choice than a sales technique. It might be a reason for me not to buy a book. I just don't see how this would work for this couple in particular due in large part to the fact that it doesn't fit either of their styles. If we reset them back to their Silver Age characterizations sure, but given their history this seems like it's either they will or they won't with not a lot of dithering in between.

All that said, I agree it seems unlikely Hickman will start his run with them together. It's not because it doesn't make sense, which it easily could given their history of reconnecting rapidly after separations but more due to what we've been told about editorials approach to romance and views on Scott in general.

[phoenixzero23]

Sometimes it is healthier to don't have expectations, this is one of those times.