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  1. #1891
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    spoilers:
    Yep, woo. Jott fans get their moment. It only took the complete and total character assassination of no less than seven characters, and the meaningless (and occasionally grotesquely tone-deaf) deaths of 20 or more.
    end of spoilers
    Sadly, you take whatever scraps you can get. But again, I don't think this will matter in the long run. So it's mostly temporary amusement. Emma will recover and be fine. Meanwhile, other characters won't be as lucky for future writers who took any of this crap seriously.

    Even with the discussed spoiler topic, while I am evil in my fondness of it, I think could be handled MUCH better by Hickman or anyone not Rosenberg.

  2. #1892
    Read Messiah Complex fsger's Avatar
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    What the problem with Emma getting some of her own medicine? Jean and her relationship with Scott suffered worse for longer.

  3. #1893
    Mighty Member Peanutsinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Well far as this chapter.
    spoilers:
    According to spoilers, Scott undoes Emma's mind-wipe that erased mutants from humans' minds. Which made her sacrifice & trump meaningless. Nemesis gloats to Emma that her relationship with Scott is dead. Then when everyone returns from Age of X, Scott goes & kisses Jean with Emma upset & watching them in the background.
    end of spoilers

    Far as Emma's character, her fans feel she just came off as evil & cowardly. She couldn't handle anything that was thrown at her, arguably threw mutants under the bus to save herself, had to rely on Mystique to fix a mess, and even sarcastically says that dragging everyone down with her is more fun that going alone.

    So basically for many fans, she came off as evil psycho Emma. Rather than more complex, mutant-rights Emma. And some felt her pining away for Scott and acting as if they never broke up made her look pathetic.
    Seriously? God, that's so messed up. I'm really not okay with them sabotaging one character at the expense of others. It's lazy and it's poor writing. That execution is so...gross.

  4. #1894
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Certain posters taking the opportunity to bash other characters pointlessly.
    Ok. Thanks.

  5. #1895
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    What the problem with Emma getting some of her own medicine? Jean and her relationship with Scott suffered worse for longer.
    Because if you had any empathy, you'd realize as a fan that suffered so long that it happening again isn't fun or cool for anyone?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #1896
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because if you had any empathy, you'd realize as a fan that suffered so long that it happening again isn't fun or cool for anyone?
    For me, I can empathize with anyone who feels their favorites are being screwed over. But depending on your favorite & the opposing character, empathy takes a backseat to resentment. I don't resent Emma as I am not as invested in any of the triangle characters. But I do find this chapter's ending amusing for reasons stated. But I do HATE all her other character assassination.

    Example for characters I do resent are the Wolverines & Mystique -all of whom Creed has been bitched out to. When Claws of a Killer came out, many Daken fans complained about his character regression back to daddy issues and working with villains. But all I can think is "Well Creed fans have been getting this for years & Daken still comes out fine."

    Wolverine, on rare instances where bad stuff happens to him, I can't help but enjoy it. Because I think it's the least he & his Gary-Stue-ishness could get. Same exact thing with Mystique. Hell when we got the Uncanny X-Men Kings cover, I was hoping Emma would end up playing Mystique for a fool, use her, then embarrass the Hell out of her.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 07-16-2019 at 10:31 PM.

  7. #1897
    Mighty Member Peanutsinspace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    What the problem with Emma getting some of her own medicine? Jean and her relationship with Scott suffered worse for longer.
    So because it happened to Jean, it's okay for it to happen to Emma? An eye for an eye right? I always find it so surprising that for fans of one of the most empathetic characters in comics, some of her fans are such petty fools.
    This doesn't do anything for Jean or Scott, it's the graveyard scene in reverse and there was certainly a better way to write a reunion than what was given while maintaining Emma's integrity. Like it or not, she's an X-Man, she's part of the team and to have a writer undermine her and make her look toddler-level incompetent does a disservice to not only the character but the readers.

  8. #1898
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because if you had any empathy, you'd realize as a fan that suffered so long that it happening again isn't fun or cool for anyone?
    I'm going to reserve my judgement on this until I've read the issue. That said I definitely sympathize with your position. It's a reality that comes with caring about certain characters.

    spoilers:
    Weird but I just can't bring myself to feel much either way about this. This should feel like good news but I can't shake the feeling that everyone loses something in that scenario. This may be a case where you have to see with your own eyes.
    end of spoilers

  9. #1899
    Fantastic Member Jalysia's Avatar
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    *reads spoilers*

    Jesus Frikken Christ.

    This board gonna be a huge shit tsunami come later on today.

  10. #1900
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    If Jean and Scott did get back together I hope Marvel, goes all the way before someone breaks them again. I hope that they show them doing cool stuff and most importantly that Scott makes Jean happy and is there for her, to support her, to tell her that she is everything and the best person. That they interact with their weird family, i know everything is limited but if they are together i hope Marvel helps redeem their romance because it was so beautiful and doesn't deserve to be shuned for bad drama.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.
    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  11. #1901
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    On Uncanny #22

    spoilers:
    Having read the issue I can say from a strictly Jott perspective it's more than most of us could have expected. Especially for those who would rather conveniently sweep everything under the carpet. This is a clear bookend to PR. Was it good? Not particularly. Rosenberg doubles down on the snappy Jott resolution even harder than PR. That page where Jean walks toward Scott. The hard snubbing both Emma and Logan get there tells me this was meant to hammer things home. It was blunt and even cruel in a way. The worst part was that it didn't even feel like it was about them. Sticking Emma and Logan in that panel was a travesty to what the moment could have been about. Honestly their reunion in PR felt better.

    It all kind of came out in the end in a jumble and like PR it all happened too hard and too fast. It really feels like sticking the final act into a few pages just to setup the status quo for Hickman. That said I couldn't be happier that this is the status quo we have. It's a place to start anyway. It's going to take time for this to actually stick, if it in fact does. A few pages doesn't fix everything, or anything really. The whole comic was a surreal experience, especially the last 5 or 6 pages. I actually had to reread the whole sequence to believe that this made it on the page.

    Unfortunately he burned Emma hard along the way. I don't see how that gives the story much joy. Happiness and grief seem like a zero sum game here and I always hoped that could be avoided, though perhaps I was fooling myself. Between how he ended this and the body count , I can't help but think so much of it was a waste. That said, it's good a outcome, if viewed entirely from a Jott perspective. For that I'm grateful and I hope that Hickman will build some meaning into all this. After all, all they've done is say hello.
    end of spoilers

  12. #1902
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    On Uncanny #22

    spoilers:
    Having read the issue I can say from a strictly Jott perspective it's more than most of us could have expected. Especially for those who would rather conveniently sweep everything under the carpet. This is a clear bookend to PR. Was it good? Not particularly. Rosenberg doubles down on the snappy Jott resolution even harder than PR. That page where Jean walks toward Scott. The hard snubbing both Emma and Logan get there tells me this was meant to hammer things home. It was blunt and even cruel in a way. The worst part was that it didn't even feel like it was about them. Sticking Emma and Logan in that panel was a travesty to what the moment could have been about. Honestly their reunion in PR felt better.

    It all kind of came out in the end in a jumble and like PR it all happened too hard and too fast. It really feels like sticking the final act into a few pages just to setup the status quo for Hickman. That said I couldn't be happier that this is the status quo we have. It's a place to start anyway. It's going to take time for this to actually stick, if it in fact does. A few pages doesn't fix everything, or anything really. The whole comic was a surreal experience, especially the last 5 or 6 pages. I actually had to reread the whole sequence to believe that this made it on the page.

    Unfortunately he burned Emma hard along the way. I don't see how that gives the story much joy. Happiness and grief seem like a zero sum game here and I always hoped that could be avoided, though perhaps I was fooling myself. Between how he ended this and the body count , I can't help but think so much of it was a waste. That said, it's good a outcome, if viewed entirely from a Jott perspective. For that I'm grateful and I hope that Hickman will build some meaning into all this. After all, all they've done is say hello.
    end of spoilers
    X-men Franchise is being reset to mostly factory settings. The bluntness is to ensure that..

  13. #1903

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    I just read Uncanny X-Men #22. If you're a Cyclops/Jean fan, this issue is a must-have. Nuff said!
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my official publishing blog.

  14. #1904
    Read Messiah Complex fsger's Avatar
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    Today's issue felt so good, only for Emma's reaction.

  15. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanutsinspace View Post
    So because it happened to Jean, it's okay for it to happen to Emma? An eye for an eye right? I always find it so surprising that for fans of one of the most empathetic characters in comics, some of her fans are such petty fools.
    This doesn't do anything for Jean or Scott, it's the graveyard scene in reverse and there was certainly a better way to write a reunion than what was given while maintaining Emma's integrity. Like it or not, she's an X-Man, she's part of the team and to have a writer undermine her and make her look toddler-level incompetent does a disservice to not only the character but the readers.
    The problem is that some of the people that HATE Jean do it because they see her as a Mary Sue...but some of the people that are obsessed about her see her exactly the same way, so anything that doesn't make her to be saint is seen as heresy and anyone that likes anything written like that as an heretic that needs to burn.

    Like I said in another thread, this run doesn't really matter in the slightest, so much it could be out of continuity, and the fact that are characters killed there that are shown alive and well in HoX #1 is clear indicator of that, so the Emma being eeeeeevil and incompetent doesn't really matter. This a fan fiction by Rosenberg and JDW for a X-men that, apart from Jean being alive, never really left 1985.

    That said, if Hickman wanted Scott and Jean together, or didn't care at all (and we don't even know that for sure), they chose LITERALLY the worst possible way to do it- no talking or room to explore any issues or anything that really need to be addressed, it was really a fuck you to Emma and to Logan first and foremost rather than a reunion (and there's no way Hickman told them do that, or that he wanted Emma to be evil and stupid, it was pure spite). Hell, this run didn't even bring Xavier to the table, is there more proof of incompetence than that?

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