Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[JeisonWolf]

Scott and Jean have been together in NXM, obviously. And nothing you say is an argument for not adding more characters to the mix rather than just the 4 of them, specially because 3 have identical power-sets, and you would hope a book has story potential for more than 12 issues.

I know that there is a game with Scott and Jean in New X-men, curiously in this game they seem more a couple than in the comics of that time, the alternative ending of Jean is that the bad guy kills Scott and she becomes angry and she transforms in Dark Phoenix and after killing the bad guy is implied that her next objective is the world or something like that (something like that as a What if? when Jean Dark phoenix after killing Scott becomes crazy and destroys the entire universe).

[Ulfhammer]

As a limited series, there's few teams that can't work. I was thinking long-term.

I feel like in modern Marvel they’re all limited series...

[SpiderClops]

I saw the movie last night and I loved it! And yes, it has some great Scott/Jean moments. The movie does a great job of establishing that they are a couple, they are in love, and they fight for each other every step of the way. Scott definitely has some good moments. A few in particular really stand out. There's no love triangle to devalue their relationship, nor are there any contrivances that would make it seem less sincere. It doesn't build the whole story around the relationship. It is, as the title suggests, about Jean Grey and her struggles with the Phoenix. But if you were disappointed by X3, then Dark Phoenix should definitely deliver.

Ok, now you are just spreading misinformation.

Dan Murrell's exact words from Screen Junkies, "Scott is almost completely sidelined." Which matches with all the other reviews that don't mention Scott at all, or his romance with Jean.

X3 is not a standard!

[lancer]

Scott and Jean became a couple in 1967 with X-Men vol. 1 #32. They remained a couple until #101 when she was replaced by the Phoenix. That was 1976, so 9 years initially. Scott was then with Phoenix-Jean until her suicide in #137. That was in 1980. So, depending on how you interpret the Jean/Phoenix retcon, that's potentially another 4 years.

Jean was resurrected in 1986. When exactly she and Scott qualify as "back together" is fuzzy and open to interpretation. Their first post-resurrection kiss is in X-Factor vol. 1 #13 in 1987, but that's just before Scott leaves to go back to Madelyne in Alaska. Of course, due to Sinister's shenanigans, all he finds is a corpse, and he's back in New York with Jean two issues later. The two of them (re?)consummate their relationship in #26 in 1988. From there, there are ups and downs, but they remain as a couple until Morrison's run, having married in 1994. Just when Scott and Jean no longer qualify as a couple is also fuzzy and up for debate. They were still married all the way up until Jean's death in New X-Men vol. 1 #150 in 2004. But, their relationship was already on the rocks when Morrison's run began in 2001. So, a minimalist interpretation would have them together from 1988-2001 i.e. 13 years; a maximalist interpretation would have them together from 1987-2004 i.e. 17 years.

Except for that brief scene in Phoenix Resurrection #5, they haven't been a couple since.

However, there are two potentially complicating factors: Scott's marriage to Madelyne and the relationship between Tyke and Jeen.

Madelyne was Jean's clone and animated by a fragment of Jean's soul. Therefore, there's an argument to be made that Scott and Madelyne's relationship was just an iteration of Scott and Jean's relationship. Also, Jean absorbed Madelyne's consciousness and memories at the end if Inferno. Scott and Madelyne were together from Uncanny X-Men vol. 1 #170 in 1983 to X-Factor vol. 1 #1 in 1986. So, that's potentially another 3 years.

Tyke and Jeen is even fuzzier. I don't recall them ever being formally together except for their kiss at the end of X-Men Blue. But, they were very close at points throughout Bunn's run. Then, there was that bit where they shared the psychic rapport for a while. OTOH, Scott was dating Bloodstorm there for a bit, too.

My personal opinion: the Phoenix-Jean years count, but the Madelyne years don't. Scott and Jean basically got back together when he came back from Alaska thinking Madelyne was dead. As far as Morrison's run, Scott and Jean were still married and still loved each other, even if they were both acting like immature idiots, all the way up to her death. I don't think Tyke/Jeen counts because it was more that they were building toward getting together than being together.

So, IMO: 1967-1980 (13 years) + 1987-2004 (17 years) = 30 years total.

For comparison, Scott and Emma's romantic relationship began with her seduction of him in New X-Men vol. 1 #131 in 2002. They remained together as a couple until AvX in 2012. While they continued to work together off-and-on until his death in Death of X, they weren't intimate. So, Scemma lasted 2002-2012 i.e. 10 years.

616 Jean and 616 Logan have never been together, so they're a zero. Scott and Betsy flirted and kissed once, but they were never together, either. So, another zero. Jean and Bishop have been a couple so far for just the Age of X-Man event which has lasted less than a year. The next closest rival relationship in terms of length would be Scott and Lee Forrester, but that amounted to a couple of flings over a couple of years.

The only substantial rival to Jott is Scemma. Even under the minimalist definition of Jott--1967-1976 (9 years) + 1988-2001 (13 years) for a total of 22 years--lasted more than twice as long.

Scott's never been with anyone as long or longer than he's been with Jean.

I should have looked at the actual math closer when doing my post about this. Clearly, together still has the advantage although the gap has been significantly closed with 15 years apart. In my mind, I count 63-76 because they are in each other's romantic orbit. Maybe 1964 because their feelings aren't revealed until about issue 8. It's why I'd say 86 through 04 as well

I wouldn't include Phoenix, but, with some of the different writer interpretations, certainly the argument could be made. One thing, if it's Jean for the romance then it's Jean for d'bari as well It's not a one way street. You have to take the bad with the good.

In my mind, Maddie no way. Maddie was not Jean. A piece of Jean's lifeforce awakened the clone. I've never thought of her as Jean. Claremont's original intention was not that Maddie was Jean. Any thoughts he had about that were after the retcon. And I saw the page from, I think it was X MEN THE END, where it's stated that the part of Jean that loved Scott most had been in Maddie and that was why Jean and Scott never worked after ahe came back. I call bullshit on that. Jean came back in X FACTOR and she loved Scott the same way she'd always loved Scott.


I guess you can cut the math various ways Do you count the reprint years. Book was still coming out, but nothing new. Still, 64 -76 and 86 -04 is 32 years and the X Men are in their 57th year. Myself, I was not speaking to Scott's other pairing as if any compare. Although I think Scemma has to be 1 of the top 5 X Men romances. Maddie was a 2 year marriage basically spent out of the books. Like I said, Scemma was front and center for a bunch of years How many X book romances could you say that about?

I was supposed to see the movie today. Real life got in the way. Maybe this weekend. The majority of what I've read doesn't seem overly promising. I'll still give it a shot, though.

[MarvelMaster616]

Ok, now you are just spreading misinformation.

Dan Murrell's exact words from Screen Junkies, "Scott is almost completely sidelined." Which matches with all the other reviews that don't mention Scott at all, or his romance with Jean.

X3 is not a standard!

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Murrell's words. Cyclops is not sidelined. In fact, he plays a critical role at a few critical moments throughout the movie. He's not cast aside or forgotten. He really does get a chance to shine in ways he didn't in the original trilogy. That alone makes the movie worth seeing in my book.

[Gray Lensman]

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Murrell's words. Cyclops is not sidelined. In fact, he plays a critical role at a few critical moments throughout the movie. He's not cast aside or forgotten. He really does get a chance to shine in ways he didn't in the original trilogy. That alone makes the movie worth seeing in my book.

That is the lowest of low bars - all Scott needs to do to shine in ways he didn't in the original trilogy is to have a single moment where he has a positive effect on the plot, or have a fight where he isn't brainwashed and isn't taken out in a few seconds.

[MarvelMaster616]

That is the lowest of low bars - all Scott needs to do to shine in ways he didn't in the original trilogy is to have a single moment where he has a positive effect on the plot, or have a fight where he isn't brainwashed and isn't taken out in a few seconds.

That didn’t make the moment any less satisfying for me.

[SpiderClops]

That didn’t make the moment any less satisfying for me.

I've heard of glass half full mentality, but this like a droplet in a water tank.

[KangMiRae]

That is the lowest of low bars - all Scott needs to do to shine in ways he didn't in the original trilogy is to have a single moment where he has a positive effect on the plot, or have a fight where he isn't brainwashed and isn't taken out in a few seconds.

I've heard of glass half full mentality, but this like a droplet in a water tank.

Jeez, what's with you people really trying to be this fricking jaded? Leave the guy alone if he was happy with it and consider it a worthwhile improvement. It's one thing to disagree, another thing to start scrutinizing optimism.

[maxi_miceli]

I've heard of glass half full mentality, but this like a droplet in a water tank.

The day MarvelMaster stops being a ray of sun on this forum is the day comics aren't going to be worth reading

[MarvelMaster616]

I just really liked the movie. Why does that have to be so controversial in a Cyclops/Jean appreciation thread? Especially when there were some very sweet Cyclops/Jean moments in the movie.

I'm definitely buying the blu-ray once it comes out. I hope it contains some extended scenes, like the Mall Scene in X-Men Apocalypse.

[JeisonWolf]

Jeez, what's with you people really trying to be this fricking jaded? Leave the guy alone if he was happy with it and consider it a worthwhile improvement. It's one thing to disagree, another thing to start scrutinizing optimism.

The day MarvelMaster stops being a ray of sun on this forum is the day comics aren't going to be worth reading

I have not seen the movie but it's true, if MarvelMaster says it's not so bad, thas something, I mean yes, I know he's very positive but that's really nice, I've already heard that Scott is not the second main character, it's again Magneto vs Xavier, at least not more JL (I love her in the hunger games but in the X-men I'm sorry I don't like her mystique) as a fan of Scott and maybe as a fan of Jott I don't whoul be super happy with this movie but it's Fox and I really didn't expect anything good so I'll take what they give us, I just hope the MCU gives us a better Scott and a better Jott, I want to see something like Evolution or the animated series of 90's. I've heard that they want to start with the O5, if this were true it would be really great, so even when they arrive Logan or Emma it will be difficult for them to eclipse Jott because we may already have a fairly decent story of Jott beforehand.

[phoenixzero23]

I really doubt Jean or jott are going to appear on the MCU thanks to Dark Phoenix.
I suspect they will try Emma. I haven't liked how Fox used Jean the two chances they had but i fear that the huge focus on her fro Dark Phoenix could turn Disney off from her.

[Omega Alpha]

No Phoenix seems a given, but I doubt they won't use Jean, even if a real love triangle, which is something they could explore with Scott & Emma, is something the MCU didn't have yet (of course, they could also use Logan, but that seems more unlikely at this point).

[KangMiRae]

No Phoenix seems a given, but I doubt they won't use Jean, even if a real love triangle, which is something they could explore with Scott & Emma, is something the MCU didn't have yet (of course, they could also use Logan, but that seems more unlikely at this point).

I'm confident they'll use Jean, too. She and the others are way too big not to just because of some bad movies from, what will eventually be, ~5+ years ago. They can just have the Phoenix story line kick rocks for a while or not even do it.