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  1. #1786
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoy View Post
    I’m still convinced Mastermind is behind everything from New X-Men to now.....the simple motive: revenge......revenge against Emma, Cyclops and Jean, with the others X-Men as a bonus.........if I’m right, knowing Wyngarde’s Family Mastermind, if it’s the Original or a unknown son, would reveal themselves before this is all over......
    At this point it is too late to retcon any of this. Sadly this horrible story is what has defined their relationship for years and for many people that joined after it. I just hope their interactions are good and respectful of what they were (husband and wife) regardless of their status. This relationship can't possibly be what it was but that doesn't mean it has do be something bad or that it can't become something different but still good. They probably will be paired with other people but as far as we know they are still in love with each other and thats what matters to me, i hope they always do even if they are with other people.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.
    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  2. #1787
    Incredible Member maxi_miceli's Avatar
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    Rosenberg confirmed today what I'd been saying, the current stories have no editorial mandate, they are free writing to kill time waiting for Hickman, stop trying to guess what he will do in HoX based on the current stories

  3. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    At this point it is too late to retcon any of this. Sadly this horrible story is what has defined their relationship for years and for many people that joined after it. I just hope their interactions are good and respectful of what they were (husband and wife) regardless of their status. This relationship can't possibly be what it was but that doesn't mean it has do be something bad or that it can't become something different but still good. They probably will be paired with other people but as far as we know they are still in love with each other and thats what matters to me, i hope they always do even if they are with other people.
    Remember Phoenix Resurrection #5. Jean has already forgiven Scott, and they've reaffirmed their feelings for each other. For better or worse, the events of Morrison's run are water under the bridge. Unless Marvel is going to ignore or retcon out that story, that's the point from which Scott and Jean are going to pick up.

    At this point, the relevant question is where (if anywhere) they go from here. We'll find out in the next few months.

  4. #1789
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeisonWolf View Post
    I think Morrison created the correct bases for Jean to look bad, she was cold and distant towards Scott, seeing those panels again is really obvious, it seems almost that she didn't care, when he tries to communicate a bit with her sponding what he feels, she shows little interest, after this she goes to look for Logan. This could really give us the image that Jean no longer cares about Scott, or not like she did before, it also gives the image that she wanted to cheat on him, even though Logan says no, she just keeps quiet and then goes back to Scott as if nothing had happened.
    I think it's easy to come to that conclusion. One of the take aways for me in re-reading these issues is that Jean really wasn't concerned about their relationship because she just assumed everything would work out. Of course that's not in line with Jean's typical approach when it comes to Scott. She's generally the one to dig into whatever's going on when Scott seems to be having issues. She didn't do that here, and it made all the difference. Of course it's fair to point out that Scott could have come clean too. There's really blame on both parties here, but it's clear to me that Morrison intended there to be more blame on Jean than Scott.

  5. #1790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoy View Post
    I’m still convinced Mastermind is behind everything from New X-Men to now.....the simple motive: revenge......revenge against Emma, Cyclops and Jean, with the others X-Men as a bonus.........if I’m right, knowing Wyngarde’s Family Mastermind, if it’s the Original or a unknown son, would reveal themselves before this is all over......
    It's seems to me that Wyngarde wouldn't have much luck manipulating Jean a second time and his tactics don't have much hope with Emma who really doesn't provide a lot of emotional openings to manipulate. It's be very convenient to blame him but I just don't think he could pull if off, especially during NXM with three top tier telepaths all on their guard.

  6. #1791
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxi_miceli View Post
    Rosenberg confirmed today what I'd been saying, the current stories have no editorial mandate, they are free writing to kill time waiting for Hickman, stop trying to guess what he will do in HoX based on the current stories
    Link? That's quite a statement for a writer to make, essentially invalidating his own work...

  7. #1792
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Remember Phoenix Resurrection #5. Jean has already forgiven Scott, and they've reaffirmed their feelings for each other. For better or worse, the events of Morrison's run are water under the bridge. Unless Marvel is going to ignore or retcon out that story, that's the point from which Scott and Jean are going to pick up.

    At this point, the relevant question is where (if anywhere) they go from here. We'll find out in the next few months.
    I would like that but i doubt it will happen.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.
    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  8. #1793
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Remember Phoenix Resurrection #5. Jean has already forgiven Scott, and they've reaffirmed their feelings for each other. For better or worse, the events of Morrison's run are water under the bridge. Unless Marvel is going to ignore or retcon out that story, that's the point from which Scott and Jean are going to pick up.

    At this point, the relevant question is where (if anywhere) they go from here. We'll find out in the next few months.
    PR wrapped things up too nicely and it was rather convenenient considering Jean had JUST returned and Scott died. Neither had to really deal with their issues bc they were only around each other for like 10 minutes. I dont think thins are really resolved and they do need to have a conversation about Morrison's run

  9. #1794
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    PR wrapped things up too nicely and it was rather convenenient considering Jean had JUST returned and Scott died. Neither had to really deal with their issues bc they were only around each other for like 10 minutes. I dont think thins are really resolved and they do need to have a conversation about Morrison's run
    which will probably be ignored. I really doubt Hickman will want to deal with any of that, Those books will jump straight to the action.
    It is a shame, they really needed and deserved to talk after so long.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.
    I have very biased opinions and i like to voice for the things i like but I'm not trying to deppreciate other things. The line is thin and blur sometimes.

  10. #1795
    Incredible Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    which will probably be ignored. I really doubt Hickman will want to deal with any of that, Those books will jump straight to the action.
    It is a shame, they really needed and deserved to talk after so long.
    It's also important to note that they brought Cyclops back in the most ridiculous way connected to it. I think they just wanted both characters alive in time for Hickman and since they're back, no one's going to question it.
    Admiral of a fleet of ships—relationships!
    Comicbooks are nothing to me without ships and romance!

  11. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I would like that but i doubt it will happen.
    Not sure why. Fubar's saying, and I agree, that unless Marvel undoes some of what they've already shown in PR\Blue\Extermination then it makes sense that's where we should expect them to be.

  12. #1797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    PR wrapped things up too nicely and it was rather convenenient considering Jean had JUST returned and Scott died. Neither had to really deal with their issues bc they were only around each other for like 10 minutes. I dont think thins are really resolved and they do need to have a conversation about Morrison's run
    Perhaps. It's certainly an upgrade from where Morrison left them off as "best friends" though. It's not closure, but that scene mattered.

  13. #1798
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    Agreed. I wish Harras, Lobdell, & co. had leaned into that more. I've always thought it'd be neat if, after coming back to the present, Scott and Jean used the future language of the Askani as their own personal, private language. They could have entire discussions in front of everyone if they so chose, but no one other than Cable would know what they were saying. Scott and Jean occasionally using some of Nate's slang from the future--"stab his eyes", "flonq", "oath", etc.--would've been a nice touch, too. References to adventures they had, people they knew, places they visited--really show the fact that they had a whole different life for years, much of which we never saw.

    Marvel could've gotten a lot of mileage out of that. It's too bad they didn't.

    I think it might have been interesting if they incorparated some of the askani cultue or lingo when they came back. But different people ? "Hardened" people? No. If that is a legitimate criticism for the books after they came back then you have to start with the limited series itself. IMO, they are not hardened or fundamentally different people at the end of issue 4. That series has multiple scenes filled with idealism and hope. The enviroment is hellish, but it doesn't change Jean and Scott. I loved that series. THAT'S how you portray Cyclops.


    Again, different strokes for different folks. I absolutely do not see Jean as cold and distant in NXM 116. I do not view that as an unsympathetic portrayal of her. Nor of Scott, either, although he is the one creating distance in the marriage Jean's been trying, for 5 months, we just didn't see it on panel We got a glimpse in Casey's first issue.

    I saw that page in PR and felt like I was reading Scott and Jean again I mean in the feelings expressed. While I could like it, appreciate it, objectively it's way too simple. Say they both came back alive from that, just taking back up together again would not be my idea of real good writing.
    Way too much happened for it to be resolved that easily. Doesn't mean Marvel wouldn't do it, though Only time will tell.

  14. #1799
    Fantastic Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    I think it might have been interesting if they incorparated some of the askani cultue or lingo when they came back. But different people ? "Hardened" people? No. If that is a legitimate criticism for the books after they came back then you have to start with the limited series itself. IMO, they are not hardened or fundamentally different people at the end of issue 4. That series has multiple scenes filled with idealism and hope. The enviroment is hellish, but it doesn't change Jean and Scott. I loved that series. THAT'S how you portray Cyclops.


    Again, different strokes for different folks. I absolutely do not see Jean as cold and distant in NXM 116. I do not view that as an unsympathetic portrayal of her. Nor of Scott, either, although he is the one creating distance in the marriage Jean's been trying, for 5 months, we just didn't see it on panel We got a glimpse in Casey's first issue.

    I saw that page in PR and felt like I was reading Scott and Jean again I mean in the feelings expressed. While I could like it, appreciate it, objectively it's way too simple. Say they both came back alive from that, just taking back up together again would not be my idea of real good writing.
    Way too much happened for it to be resolved that easily. Doesn't mean Marvel wouldn't do it, though Only time will tell.
    If anything it was Scott that was cold and distant with Jean. She tried to talk to him but he shut her out and said to "just read my mind". Jean didn't accept that because it was the easy way out. Scott was also cruel to Jean when he implied he had slept with Emma in Hong Kong. Scott said he didn't sleep with her that they were up all night (something to this effect and he was clearly messing with Jean). There was also that scene written by Joe Casey where Jean tells Scott she loves him and he's all "love you, wife" and in the panel he seemed distant with her.

    Scott was having a hard time due to his merger with Apocalypse. He didn't think Jean or Professor X would understand because possession was an occupational hazard for telepaths. He also feared Jean's judgement. He became celibate and Jean became isolated in the relationship. It was a complicated issue for them both, and one neither handled particularly well.

    That made their relationship real in my opinion. Relationships are tough and aren't the Disney "one true love/pairing" b.s. that we are fed in the media. I'm sorry to burst any bubbles. Real life relationships are very complex and full of both ups and downs. There are plenty of downs because it takes a lot of work to even keep a relationship going. Scott and Jean have a complex history and their relationship reflected this fact.

    I think they will do great as teammates and close friends. It is possible to remain close friends with an ex. It doesn't have to be weird. Plenty of folks do it. I know some of us will never be happy with that. I do think eventually they will be brought back together. They are the Luke and Laura of the X-men (probably a bad analogy considering their history and how they ended up).

    Scott and Jean can still love each other and not be together romantically. This is a thing also. Scott can love both Jean and Emma at the same time. It doesn't mean he gets to be with them both but it is possible to care deeply for more than one person (and yes I mean romantically).

  15. #1800
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Loved your take on New X-men Ulfhammer. Lots of thought obviously went into it, and upon reflection, I can definitely see what Morrison had intended.
    "I've done abominable things. I don't ask for forgiveness. I don't deserve it. I'm happy to spend what remains of my life paying for my crimes. But I'd do it all again."
    -Cyclops
    "Life sucks sometimes...but it's always worth living."
    -Spider-man
    "Do not mistake a desire to avoid violence with an ability to deal with it."
    -Wonder Woman

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