Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[MechaJeanix]

Over the years I've seen some of everything. Mainly Jean fans who liked her with Scott, but it was mainly their love of her. The cpmplete reverse with mainly Scott fans. Then you had a sect, like myself, who liked both. They were my 2 favorite X Men from thw time I started reading the book.
Individually, regardless of them being coupled. It's why the integrity of each of their characters/ was so important to me. You can't just strip that away, put them back together, and keep me a happy camper.

I do think generally there has always been a split in the online fandom. There are the Scott fans who see Jean as an extension of his character. She is reduced to the supporting girlfriend or wife. I've argued with them for more years than I care to admit and they always deny they feel this way but when they express their ideas and opinions about Jean it is always as an object of affection for Cyclops. These are the folks that see the relationship as the defining element of the character. Then you have the die hard Jean fans (like myself and others) who see Jean as a dynamic character in her own right and that she doesn't need to be tied to Scott Summers. Scott is also one of my favorite characters, but I just think Jean deserves to be as complex and nuanced as he was allowed to be when Jean was dead. Jean was great in X-men Red without Scott, she was great in New X-men where she had her own stuff going on without Scott, and she was great in the Revolution run while Scott was believed dead.

Likewise Scott was great (though controversial) in recent years when Jean was deceased. These characters share a history but they can stand on their own without the other. I think if they ever come back together they should remain that aspect - be written as complex individuals and not as a unit and not with overly sappy writing and dialogue. I just cant' take what generally passes as romance in literature or tv/movies. It is often cringe inducing.

I do love Jean and Scott when they are together, but so much has changed since the 90's. They have evolved since then.

[TheDeadSpace]

I do think generally there has always been a split in the online fandom. There are the Scott fans who see Jean as an extension of his character. She is reduced to the supporting girlfriend or wife. I've argued with them for more years than I care to admit and they always deny they feel this way but when they express their ideas and opinions about Jean it is always as an object of affection for Cyclops. These are the folks that see the relationship as the defining element of the character. Then you have the die hard Jean fans (like myself and others) who see Jean as a dynamic character in her own right and that she doesn't need to be tied to Scott Summers. Scott is also one of my favorite characters, but I just think Jean deserves to be as complex and nuanced as he was allowed to be when Jean was dead. Jean was great in X-men Red without Scott, she was great in New X-men where she had her own stuff going on without Scott, and she was great in the Revolution run while Scott was believed dead.

Likewise Scott was great (though controversial) in recent years when Jean was deceased. These characters share a history but they can stand on their own without the other. I think if they ever come back together they should remain that aspect - be written as complex individuals and not as a unit and not with overly sappy writing and dialogue. I just cant' take what generally passes as romance in literature or tv/movies. It is often cringe inducing.

I do love Jean and Scott when they are together, but so much has changed since the 90's. They have evolved since then.

Can't say I agree on the breakdown, it lacks objectivity. I think instead, it's safe to say that a person's view on the relationship depends on what they want from the characters and what they have to offer storywise as individuals or as a collective. Personally, I don't see how a relationship keeps a character from progressing on their own. At the same time, writers do have the tendency to favor a character over the other, but I think that's more related to the issue of the writer than a relationship. Either way, whatever happens to Jott is still left up in the air. The only thing for certain, is that many writers currently seem to share the view that Scott is a problem for Jean. Seems like she has a bright future a head of her.

[MechaJeanix]

Can't say I agree on the breakdown, it lacks objectivity. I think instead, it's safe to say that a person's view on the relationship depends on what they want from the characters and what they have to offer storywise as individuals or as a collective. Personally, I don't see how a relationship keeps a character from progressing on their own. At the same time, writers do have the tendency to favor a character over the other, but I think that's more related to the issue of the writer than a relationship. Either way, whatever happens to Jott is still left up in the air. The only thing for certain, is that many writers currently seem to share the view that Scott is a problem for Jean. Seems like she has a bright future a head of her.

Oh, I agree I'm generalizing. It is subjective for sure, but just based on my experience posting on the various forums. It is completely open to critique, and I could be wrong (I don't think I am). Relationships in fiction is hard and there is a reason why it doesn't always work - or why creators feel that it makes characters boring and less interesting. I think relationships could be dynamic and positive but if they write romantic characters more independent of each other. For example when Rogue or Gambit call each other "dear" it makes my head explode or when Jean use to call Scott "my man-o-mine" or whatever b.s. I've been in a relationship for nearly 12 years and I couldn't imagine talking to my significant other like that. It would be insulting to me and the other person. But I digress...

I know many of you disagree with my opinions on Scott and Jean as a couple, and that is ok. I would be ok with their relationship as long as Jean didn't get turned into the stereotypical "girlfriend, wife, mom" character. But I'm afraid when you have writers that are predominantly white heterosexual men the women characters in relationships tend to get reduced to the girlfriend role. Scott and Jean had their moment, and I'm sure it will happen again, but why can't we enjoy them separately? Why this hard rule that they have to be together or be OTP? Why do we have fuse characters names together and title a relationship? These things I struggle to understand.

That said, yes I loved Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. As a young man the wedding of Cyclops and Jean Grey was my favorite comic. I am not a hater. I do enjoy them together but I also acknowledge that relationships in fiction tend to hurt both characters. Both characters could be so much more.

[TheDeadSpace]

Oh, I agree I'm generalizing. It is subjective for sure, but just based on my experience posting on the various forums. It is completely open to critique, and I could be wrong (I don't think I am). Relationships in fiction is hard and there is a reason why it doesn't always work - or why creators feel that it makes characters boring and less interesting. I think relationships could be dynamic and positive but if they write romantic characters more independent of each other. For example when Rogue or Gambit call each other "dear" it makes my head explode or when Jean use to call Scott "my man-o-mine" or whatever b.s. I've been in a relationship for nearly 12 years and I couldn't imagine talking to my significant other like that. It would be insulting to me and the other person. But I digress...

I know many of you disagree with my opinions on Scott and Jean as a couple, and that is ok. I would be ok with their relationship as long as Jean didn't get turned into the stereotypical "girlfriend, wife, mom" character. But I'm afraid when you have writers that are predominantly white heterosexual men the women characters in relationships tend to get reduced to the girlfriend role. Scott and Jean had their moment, and I'm sure it will happen again, but why can't we enjoy them separately? Why this hard rule that they have to be together or be OTP? Why do we have fuse characters names together and title a relationship? These things I struggle to understand.

That said, yes I loved Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. As a young man the wedding of Cyclops and Jean Grey was my favorite comic. I am not a hater. I do enjoy them together but I also acknowledge that relationships in fiction tend to hurt both characters. Both characters could be so much more.

For me, the issue isn't that they need to be together, it's that they seem to be tied together. At this point their history indicates a strong connection. Avoiding that or breaking it for the sake of change doesn't seem genuine. It comes off as a gimmick in which creativity is stagnant. Again, that is my view. As far as relationships are portrayed, again, I feel it's completely subjective. It does seem cheesy, but I know couples that act that way. Honestly I have no problem with your views, at the very least it offers the opportunity for discussions and an exchange of views. That being said, I do feel that both characters can suffer just as much being separated. Their young versions are the perfect example. We got a Jeen that had a strong character arc but we were also left with a love struck Scott that was one dimensional. I can see Marvel repeating this mistake very easily.

[KangMiRae]

I think this is cute, because the cosplayers are married
https://www.instagram.com/p/By8sVazDEbk/
https://www.instagram.com/p/By4v-mZjyJU/
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They're doing what Marvel is failing to do. So, so cute!

[KangMiRae]

Oh, I agree I'm generalizing. It is subjective for sure, but just based on my experience posting on the various forums. It is completely open to critique, and I could be wrong (I don't think I am). Relationships in fiction is hard and there is a reason why it doesn't always work - or why creators feel that it makes characters boring and less interesting. I think relationships could be dynamic and positive but if they write romantic characters more independent of each other. For example when Rogue or Gambit call each other "dear" it makes my head explode or when Jean use to call Scott "my man-o-mine" or whatever b.s. I've been in a relationship for nearly 12 years and I couldn't imagine talking to my significant other like that. It would be insulting to me and the other person. But I digress...

I know many of you disagree with my opinions on Scott and Jean as a couple, and that is ok. I would be ok with their relationship as long as Jean didn't get turned into the stereotypical "girlfriend, wife, mom" character. But I'm afraid when you have writers that are predominantly white heterosexual men the women characters in relationships tend to get reduced to the girlfriend role. Scott and Jean had their moment, and I'm sure it will happen again, but why can't we enjoy them separately? Why this hard rule that they have to be together or be OTP? Why do we have fuse characters names together and title a relationship? These things I struggle to understand.

That said, yes I loved Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. As a young man the wedding of Cyclops and Jean Grey was my favorite comic. I am not a hater. I do enjoy them together but I also acknowledge that relationships in fiction tend to hurt both characters. Both characters could be so much more.

That's like asking why MJ & Peter, Reed & Sue or Lois & Clark have to be together. They were written into each other's characters. I'm not sure where the difficulty is. And being written into each other doesn't degrade either character, or Jean, since you're so worried about her specifically. That's on the writers, not on Jott, and to pin Jean's lack of development on the relationship is just stan-ing a character you don't even comprehend then, tbh.

[Ulfhammer]

Oh, I agree I'm generalizing. It is subjective for sure, but just based on my experience posting on the various forums. It is completely open to critique, and I could be wrong (I don't think I am). Relationships in fiction is hard and there is a reason why it doesn't always work - or why creators feel that it makes characters boring and less interesting. I think relationships could be dynamic and positive but if they write romantic characters more independent of each other. For example when Rogue or Gambit call each other "dear" it makes my head explode or when Jean use to call Scott "my man-o-mine" or whatever b.s. I've been in a relationship for nearly 12 years and I couldn't imagine talking to my significant other like that. It would be insulting to me and the other person. But I digress...

I know many of you disagree with my opinions on Scott and Jean as a couple, and that is ok. I would be ok with their relationship as long as Jean didn't get turned into the stereotypical "girlfriend, wife, mom" character. But I'm afraid when you have writers that are predominantly white heterosexual men the women characters in relationships tend to get reduced to the girlfriend role. Scott and Jean had their moment, and I'm sure it will happen again, but why can't we enjoy them separately? Why this hard rule that they have to be together or be OTP? Why do we have fuse characters names together and title a relationship? These things I struggle to understand.

That said, yes I loved Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. As a young man the wedding of Cyclops and Jean Grey was my favorite comic. I am not a hater. I do enjoy them together but I also acknowledge that relationships in fiction tend to hurt both characters. Both characters could be so much more.

I don't actually see a specific objection to Scott and Jean together. You're really talking about hypothetical future characterizations that have no certainty of ever coming to pass. Sure Jean and Scott were sappy and romantic most of their relationship but they were both guilty of that. If that's all you've really got to criticize about them, then I'm afraid I don't really understand your position.

Is there something specific in their history you object to? I'd have to think there must be since you've got a very strong opinion on the matter. Maybe you'll decide to share. It doesn't really matter. You're not required to defend your POV, but if you're going to come into this thread and say what you're saying, it's not unreasonable to expect to be challenged as to what specifically caused you to feel this way.

As for why I want them together. We'll it's kind of like eating a stick of butter, than eating a bagel. Sure I could probably choke down the butter and the dry bagel, but they're so much better together. That's what a good couple is, two characters (or people for that matter) that together are actually more then the sum of their parts. Jean and Scott are that kind of couple. They're uniquely complimentary among fictional couples in that their weaknesses map to each others strengths almost like they were designed to be together. And I've got to say, they're pretty great together. If you're a fan of Jean prior to Red, you've become a fan of hers in this context. Same with Scott. I'll never chose the revolutionary over the man who stood by his wife. Cooler, yeah of course. Someone I'd admire more? Not a chance.

Of course for me personally it could have a lot to do with the age I was when I started reading X-Men. I was pretty young when I read the early Claremont issues and the DPS and later X-Factor. I've gotten to see them evolve together from a couple of kids caught up in the emotions of the roller coaster they were riding to a more mature couple that was capable of dealing with a relationship after the hormones fade. They became authentically as close to unconditional love as you're likely to see in fiction. That's the real kind, that forgives, that's hard work every single day and that accepts those shortcomings of the other as just part of the package. Unconditional. So you'll understand that because I have this view of them, nothing that's happened should justifiably separate them if it's up to their own will. Why? Because they don't want to be apart. Never have.

[FUBAR007]

As for why I want them together. We'll it's kind of like eating a stick of butter, than eating a bagel. Sure I could probably choke down the butter and the dry bagel, but they're so much better together.

Ah, the heart of the matter at last! Scott's obviously the dry bagel. That would make Jean the butter. Though TBH, I see her more as a spread of sweet strawberry jam.

[lancer]

Oh, I agree I'm generalizing. It is subjective for sure, but just based on my experience posting on the various forums. It is completely open to critique, and I could be wrong (I don't think I am). Relationships in fiction is hard and there is a reason why it doesn't always work - or why creators feel that it makes characters boring and less interesting. I think relationships could be dynamic and positive but if they write romantic characters more independent of each other. For example when Rogue or Gambit call each other "dear" it makes my head explode or when Jean use to call Scott "my man-o-mine" or whatever b.s. I've been in a relationship for nearly 12 years and I couldn't imagine talking to my significant other like that. It would be insulting to me and the other person. But I digress...

I know many of you disagree with my opinions on Scott and Jean as a couple, and that is ok. I would be ok with their relationship as long as Jean didn't get turned into the stereotypical "girlfriend, wife, mom" character. But I'm afraid when you have writers that are predominantly white heterosexual men the women characters in relationships tend to get reduced to the girlfriend role. Scott and Jean had their moment, and I'm sure it will happen again, but why can't we enjoy them separately? Why this hard rule that they have to be together or be OTP? Why do we have fuse characters names together and title a relationship? These things I struggle to understand.

That said, yes I loved Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. As a young man the wedding of Cyclops and Jean Grey was my favorite comic. I am not a hater. I do enjoy them together but I also acknowledge that relationships in fiction tend to hurt both characters. Both characters could be so much more.

That is an age old question in serial fiction. What do you do after they get together? As to how any married couple is handled in fiction, mileage is bound to vary. Back in the 90s, I can recall, on usenet, people calling Jean a whiny, clingy attachment to Scott. People have their own perceptions. Me, I strongly disagree. I used to say, let's go. Let's start from when they reconcialed in I think it was X MEN 24. Let's go apperanace by Jean apearance and let's see just how attached they were OF COURSE they act like a couple sometimes. If not, what the hell are they married for?

As to why any of these couples should have to be together, I suppose you could make some sort of argument why it isn't a must. Again, this is a Jott appreciation thread. You have to expect some strong pushback to that idea here. Post it in another thread and you well might get some more people agreeing with your sentiment.

[Lokimaru]

I think most here tend to forget that Jean and Scott were on Seperate teams during the 90's. Jean was on the Gold team whilst Scott was on the Blue team. Then came Age where the paired her with Wolverine in the creepiest way possible outside of Wolverine and the X-Men. But AoA was all about that May-December life.

[Omega Alpha]

The separation of the teams lasted very little, though. And of course Jean had a pairing with Logan in AoA while Scott...pined for Jean there. You even had a What If? about their wedding that had a few options: what if Jean got together with Logan, what if Jean got together with Angel (which resulted in Scott joining the Brotherhood, mind you) and...what if they got married earlier. The idea that Scott could seriously get interested in someone else didn't cross anyone's mind, even in alternate worlds, because of course she's so much better and perfect for him.

[Ulfhammer]

Ah, the heart of the matter at last! Scott's obviously the dry bagel. That would make Jean the butter. Though TBH, I see her more as a spread of sweet strawberry jam.

I submit to your superior interpretation of my analogy. Jean is definitely Smuckers, messy but wholesome and satisfying.

That'd make Emma Cheese Whiz, looks good but loaded with artificial preservatives.
Maddie would have to be Nutella, made with exotic ingredients but put it down and walk away, it's liable to get stolen by your little brother.

[phoenixzero23]

This artist drew X-men Blue (issue #9 i think) and he made this cute sketch
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxn2qManQSc/
59216007_284390739175798_3496994257258477691_n.jpg
60263220_453824775419364_7308127973935085209_n.jpg
uhflju.jpg

[MarvelMaster616]

This artist drew X-men Blue (issue #9 i think) and he made this cute sketch
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxn2qManQSc/
59216007_284390739175798_3496994257258477691_n.jpg
60263220_453824775419364_7308127973935085209_n.jpg
uhflju.jpg

A great moment interrupted. That's a common theme of Scott and Jean's romance, but it's still adorable.

[KangMiRae]

I think most here tend to forget that Jean and Scott were on Seperate teams during the 90's. Jean was on the Gold team whilst Scott was on the Blue team. Then came Age where the paired her with Wolverine in the creepiest way possible outside of Wolverine and the X-Men. But AoA was all about that May-December life.

The separate teams barely lasted and she still spent a good chunk of time with Scott despite being on a different team, actively going out of her way to be with him.