Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Gray Lensman]

Theres a big difference between Bishop and Madelyne.

Absolutely. Bishop was created as his own character and not some sub to replace someone for the purpose of a writeout. Nor did he get the short end of the stick due to a backroom spat that no one involved was willing to find a way out of that didn't involve dragging at least one person through the mud.

[TheDeadSpace]

In an attempt to lighten the mood, what is everyone's favorite Jott moment?

[Ulfhammer]

Theres a big difference between Bishop and Madelyne.

Yes. There's actually two very important elements of Scott and Maddie's relationship that needs to be pointed out.

First, from a thematic\creative POV, Claremont designed Maddie to be Scott's "consolation prize" for losing Jean at the end of the DPS. Since Shooter wouldn't allow him to use the real deal he copied her in all but name. It was part of his retirement plan for Scott, to ultimately allow Scott and "Jean" to live out there day's in a life after the X-Men. Secondly, it's clear in the issues that Maddie's physical resemblance to Jean was a factor in Scott pursuing her.

The end result is that Scott and Maddie's relationship was based on, developed from and was an extension of Scott's previous relationship with Jean both visually as well as creatively. Any hypothetical relationship between Jean and Bishop would not be based on those things. How much of a factor this was in Jean's acceptance of Nathan is impossible to tell since her acceptance was editorially mandated. That said, I'm assuming the on panel reasoning was:

1. Maddie was gone so Nathan would benefit from Jean acting as his mother.
2. Jean and Maddie shared identical genetics so Nathan could have just as easily been a product of a Jean and Scott union as a Maddie and Scott union.
3. Scott loved Nathan and Nathan (theoretically) was always going to be part of Scott's life and since Jean saw herself in much the same way, accepting Nathan as a surrogate son was an extension of her love for Scott..
4. By the end of Inferno, Jean received both the DPS era Phoenix memories and Maddie's memories, so she'd recall everything about Nathan from conception to delivery and the months that followed prior to Inferno (this one's really weird BTW).

I'm not saying that something similar couldn't happen between Scott and a child of Jean's by another father, but it wouldn't bear much resemblance to this situation. Also, I'm assuming the father would survive so Scott couldn't really fill the same position as Jean did with Nathan.

[Legaldrugdealer]

In an attempt to lighten the mood, what is everyone's favorite Jott moment?

Even though it was retconned not to be Jean. But when they duck into the alcove on the moon in the dark Phoenix saga and she uses the moon dust to cover them temporarily. That cheesy dialogue gets me, lol

[Havok83]

In an attempt to lighten the mood, what is everyone's favorite Jott moment?

Their talk in X-men v2 24 also stands out

[Legaldrugdealer]

Their talk in X-men v2 24 also stands out

Forgot about those, those are good too

[FUBAR007]

When was Scott and Jean (not Phoenix)'s psychic rapport established and how did it happen?

The first time was back during the Claremont/Byrne run between Scott and Phoenix-Jean. I want to say it was in the same issue where they had sex on the butte in New Mexico, but I could be wrong. That rapport was severed when Phoenix-Jean offed herself.

The second time was in X-Factor #67-68 when Jean finally got her telepathy back. That lasted until Scott merged with Apocalypse which severed the rapport.

[FUBAR007]

In an attempt to lighten the mood, what is everyone's favorite Jott moment?

The back-up story in Classic X-Men #42 features part 2 of Scott's origin, covering his time in Sinister's orphanage. It ends with Xavier and Jean telepathically contacting Scott in a dream. Jean reaches out to him, and the Phoenix effect wraps around them both.

[Arachne]

That's the story I was trying to remember.

[MosSuperman]

Yes. There's actually two very important elements of Scott and Maddie's relationship that needs to be pointed out.

First, from a thematic\creative POV, Claremont designed Maddie to be Scott's "consolation prize" for losing Jean at the end of the DPS. Since Shooter wouldn't allow him to use the real deal he copied her in all but name. It was part of his retirement plan for Scott, to ultimately allow Scott and "Jean" to live out there day's in a life after the X-Men. Secondly, it's clear in the issues that Maddie's physical resemblance to Jean was a factor in Scott pursuing her.

The end result is that Scott and Maddie's relationship was based on, developed from and was an extension of Scott's previous relationship with Jean both visually as well as creatively. Any hypothetical relationship between Jean and Bishop would not be based on those things. How much of a factor this was in Jean's acceptance of Nathan is impossible to tell since her acceptance was editorially mandated. That said, I'm assuming the on panel reasoning was:

1. Maddie was gone so Nathan would benefit from Jean acting as his mother.
2. Jean and Maddie shared identical genetics so Nathan could have just as easily been a product of a Jean and Scott union as a Maddie and Scott union.
3. Scott loved Nathan and Nathan (theoretically) was always going to be part of Scott's life and since Jean saw herself in much the same way, accepting Nathan as a surrogate son was an extension of her love for Scott..
4. By the end of Inferno, Jean received both the DPS era Phoenix memories and Maddie's memories, so she'd recall everything about Nathan from conception to delivery and the months that followed prior to Inferno (this one's really weird BTW).

I'm not saying that something similar couldn't happen between Scott and a child of Jean's by another father, but it wouldn't bear much resemblance to this situation. Also, I'm assuming the father would survive so Scott couldn't really fill the same position as Jean did with Nathan.

Exactly. Maddie turning out to be a clone shut the door at any potential to threaten Scott and Jean's marriage. Bishop is his own caharacter and a baby between him and Jean would mean he would always be in the picture. This goes for Scott too if he and Emma had a kid. So while you could revisit jott, it won't last. That's my opinion.

I've talked about this enough in a appreciation thread.

[Ulfhammer]

The second time was in X-Factor #67-68 when Jean finally got her telepathy back. That lasted until Scott merged with Apocalypse which severed the rapport.

Wow. You are a font of knowledge Fubar. Thanks. I should have guessed it was in X-Factor.

[Ulfhammer]

In an attempt to lighten the mood, what is everyone's favorite Jott moment?

There are some really great moments but this page is one of my favorites. Actually the whole issue, UXM 308 is.



It's not their most iconic moment, or the one people will remember first but it feels real. This issue captures a mature Jean and Scott, who are going into marriage understanding what that means. They both brought their well earned doubts and insecurities into this issue, mostly Jean. By the end of the issue they realize clearly just how powerful their history and connection is, and decide that life is too short to allow fear to keep them from what they want.

Not exactly puppy love, but that's exactly why this issue matters to me so much. DPS was great and all, but for me X-Factor 53, UXM 308, XM 30, AoC&P and SfC are the issues that frame their relationship best.

[Legaldrugdealer]

There are some really great moments but this page is one of my favorites. Actually the whole issue, UXM 308 is.



It's not their most iconic moment, or the one people will remember first but it feels real. This issue captures a mature Jean and Scott, who are going into marriage understanding what that means. They both brought their well earned doubts and insecurities into this issue, mostly Jean. By the end of the issue they realize clearly just how powerful their history and connection is, and decide that life is too short to allow fear to keep them from what they want.

Not exactly puppy love, but that's exactly why this issue matters to me so much. DPS was great and all, but for me X-Factor 53, UXM 308, XM 30, AoC&P and SfC are the issues that frame their relationship best.

This was good too. What does SfC refer to? I'm racking my brain and can't for the life of me think of what it is.

[lancer]

SEARCH FOR CYCLOPS? The limited series where Scott came back in 2001.

[Legaldrugdealer]

SEARCH FOR CYCLOPS? The limited series where Scott came back in 2001.

Thanks, knew it had to be something l should have known really. Guess I had a brain fart lol. I kinda stopped reading the xbooks when scott merged with apocalypse and presumed dead