Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[FUBAR007]

Emma and Logan getting down is credible? Scott being okay with Jean and Logan together is credible? Characterization just might have to bent a tad huh?

I meant "credible" more in terms of "believable that Hickman will do it". NOT in terms of consistent characterization. None of the X-Men, save Emma, have truly been in-character under Hickman thus far.

BUT...

...the Scott, Jean, and Logan we're seeing aren't the originals; they're back-up copies. Specifically, they're copies made by Xavier, the Five, and Krakoa. We have only Xavier's word that their minds are truly identical to those of the originals, and Xavier himself is acting out of character. So much so that I'm not yet convinced he's really Xavier.

In addition, mind-copying Cerebro has the capacity to save earlier "iterations" of each mutant mind. According to the data pages, Xavier has replaced his own mind with such earlier iterations twice. That suggests the Scott and Jean we're seeing may well not be copied from the most recent, pre-Hickman Scott and Jean. My personal suspicion is that the Scott we're seeing is copied from the Bendis era, and the Jean we're seeing is copied from the Silver Age (thus explaining the retro costume). Alternatively, Xavier could be implanting selectively edited versions of their minds, thus explaining their behavior including how docile and deferential they are to him.

TL;DR: something shady is going on.

Ultimately, though, we just don't know what. Not yet.

Personally, Hickman is writing the characters so far off-model and, given his proclivities as a writer, I simply can't take them at face value much less reconcile them with previous continuity and characterization. Consequently, I'm not all that invested emotionally in how the characters are portrayed. These aren't "my" Scott and Jean. At most, they're copies of "my" Scott and Jean.

[FUBAR007]

Ok, what's that about polyamory? Really in what head can the idea of ​​Jean and Scott fit into a polyamorous relationship?
I don't know at what point the really X-men are currently, many of the current X-men were dead like Alex and some didn't quite agree with Xavier and his methods, I can hardly imagine everyone being perfectly in agreement with Xavier and following him.

Scott and Jean (and Emma and Logan) going poly is a speculation that's been floated on other threads. It stems from comments Hickman has made on Twitter and in interviews which may or may not be bullshit.

I think it's plausible Hickman may do something like that as it would fit with the high-concept, post-human sci-fi themes he's using. Would it make sense with Scott and Jean (and Logan) as we've historically known them? No. But, then, these are back-up copies, not the original characters.

[Omega Alpha]

There's no reason to rehash the Jean/Scott/Emma triangle, at least not as an adulterous affair. Been there, done that. There's nothing new left to say there. Just putting Scott and Emma back together doesn't make sense either since Rosenberg and White just had Scott and Jean reunite. Taking The Rectangle (including Logan) polyamorous is more credible IMO as it's both new and it fits thematically with Hickman's post-human, futurist ideas. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the concept myself, but at least it'd be consensual.

Anyway, I'm still not convinced that the original Scott and Jean, last seen for sure in Rosenberg's last issue, aren't dead or on ice somewhere. The Scott and Jean we're seeing now are back-up copies, and I strongly suspect the versions we saw die fighting Orchis were back-up copies, too.

Whatever Rosenberg and White fanwank in UXM happened, it didn't matter in the slightest, since Hickman wrote this before Rosenberg's run even started. And it's pretty clear these are Scott and Jean as much as one can be- every hero has been resurrected before (in Infinity Gauntlet, for example), and it didn't stop them from being them. Hell, one can argue that everyone dies and is reassembled when they teleport.

I also don't see as that out of character for anyone involved- none of them are prudes, and Emma has been shown actually to be more jealous of Scott than Jean is. I could easily see it- either of them can risk lose Scott forever, while even if he chooses her, the other one would always be a shadow, while with that arrangement they can be sure that when he's with them he wants to be, while they are free to have pursue another person if they want. Plus, IRL, no one that dates a widower has to worry about his ex coming back to life, or a woman that died resurrect to deal with her husband seeing someone else, so it's hard to apply real-life standards, not even taking the whole superpowers thing in the mix.

Also, there's no evidence Logan and Emma are getting it on, like some people said.

But anyway, I agree it fits Hickman's post-human, futurist ideas, and is something new rather than the same old will they, won't they dynamics.

[Ulfhammer]

I meant "credible" more in terms of "believable that Hickman will do it". NOT in terms of consistent characterization. None of the X-Men, save Emma, have truly been in-character under Hickman thus far.

BUT...

...the Scott, Jean, and Logan we're seeing aren't the originals; they're back-up copies. Specifically, they're copies made by Xavier, the Five, and Krakoa. We have only Xavier's word that their minds are truly identical to those of the originals, and Xavier himself is acting out of character. So much so that I'm not yet convinced he's really Xavier.

In addition, mind-copying Cerebro has the capacity to save earlier "iterations" of each mutant mind. According to the data pages, Xavier has replaced his own mind with such earlier iterations twice. That suggests the Scott and Jean we're seeing may well not be copied from the most recent, pre-Hickman Scott and Jean. My personal suspicion is that the Scott we're seeing is copied from the Bendis era, and the Jean we're seeing is copied from the Silver Age (thus explaining the retro costume). Alternatively, Xavier could be implanting selectively edited versions of their minds, thus explaining their behavior including how docile and deferential they are to him.

TL;DR: something shady is going on.

Ultimately, though, we just don't know what. Not yet.

Personally, Hickman is writing the characters so far off-model and, given his proclivities as a writer, I simply can't take them at face value much less reconcile them with previous continuity and characterization. Consequently, I'm not all that invested emotionally in how the characters are portrayed. These aren't "my" Scott and Jean. At most, they're copies of "my" Scott and Jean.

That spin makes more sense I suppose. I agree the characterization is so whacked that something must be going on.

It occurred to me though as I read your response that Hickman could simply be re-inventing the X-Men for some phantom new fans that perhaps Marvel hopes will emerge. Those of us who know the characters well enough to call bullshit, are literally a dying breed and Marvel knows that. Yes we're still buying the lion share of product but if Marvel doesn't recapture a youthful audience they die with us. They know that. I don't agree with the direction if that's the case but I can see the powers that be buying into a full blown reinvention with new fans as the intended outcome.

[Ulfhammer]

Whatever Rosenberg and White fanwank in UXM happened, it didn't matter in the slightest, since Hickman wrote this before Rosenberg's run even started. And it's pretty clear these are Scott and Jean as much as one can be- every hero has been resurrected before (in Infinity Gauntlet, for example), and it didn't stop them from being them. Hell, one can argue that everyone dies and is reassembled when they teleport.

I also don't see as that out of character for anyone involved- none of them are prudes, and Emma has been shown actually to be more jealous of Scott than Jean is. I could easily see it- either of them can risk lose Scott forever, while even if he chooses her, the other one would always be a shadow, while with that arrangement they can be sure that when he's with them he wants to be, while they are free to have pursue another person if they want. Plus, IRL, no one that dates a widower has to worry about his ex coming back to life, or a woman that died resurrect to deal with her husband seeing someone else, so it's hard to apply real-life standards, not even taking the whole superpowers thing in the mix.

Also, there's no evidence Logan and Emma are getting it on, like some people said.

But anyway, I agree it fits Hickman's post-human, futurist ideas, and is something new rather than the same old will they, won't they dynamics.

The will they\won't they era effectively ended in the Silver Age. There was a brief blip with the Maddie fiasco, and again with Morrison but the vast majority of the Scott and Jean's history, when they're both alive has been solidly in each other camp.

Scott not freaking out 24\7 at everything that Charles is up to and the situation in general, the least of which is dealing with Jean being back. That's just one example of how out of touch these versions are. For comparison see his reactions to the same situation in early X-Factor and ANXM Vol 1 issues. The X-Men inviting vipers into their nest left and right is another point that clearly would cause a revolt with at least some of these characters. Jean voting to banish Creed into permanent limbo is another example. Kurt essentially suggesting mutants breed there way to world domination? The simplest way to explain it is this. Put a hundred people in the same room and get them all to agree to a course of action. It just doesn't happen. There are always at least a few dissenters. HOX has literally zero. Everyone is in total agreement with Chuck's plans, which are frankly more than a little controversial. It just doesn't pass the smell test, on a number of levels.

[ThePhoenix]

Do you forget that House of X is 6 months after Rosenburg Uncanny? So they had plenty off panel time to deal with anything you mentioned...

[spirit2011]

Do you forget that House of X is 6 months after Rosenburg Uncanny? So they had plenty off panel time to deal with anything you mentioned...

We just don't know, if happened off panel it doesn't count

clicked on the wrong thread

[Ulfhammer]

Do you forget that House of X is 6 months after Rosenburg Uncanny? So they had plenty off panel time to deal with anything you mentioned...

If it's off panel it didn't happen. I think that goes double when the writer isn't claiming it happened off panel. Also "Marvel Time".

[MarvelMaster616]

Just picked up yesterday at nycc
By Sabine Rich.
Attachment 87888

Nice! I was at NYCC too. Saw some incredible artwork.

[MarvelMaster616]

Saw this nice little display at NYCC. Thought I’d share it.

DAB0298F-CD77-4C39-BD1A-F816496F0FFC.jpg

[5cents]

-Jean Grey will don Xavier’s Cerebro helmet at the end of issue #1
-Not every character on the team will appear every issue
-Beast is in charge of the intelligence unit

Not sure why Xavier would give Jean the helmet. IDK to me it doesn't feel like Jean will be a big part of this book. Hopefully I'm wrong but I feel the book will probably heavily focus on Domino, Wolverine, Beast and Quire.

[RachelGrey]

-Jean Grey will don Xavier’s Cerebro helmet at the end of issue #1
-Not every character on the team will appear every issue
-Beast is in charge of the intelligence unit

Not sure why Xavier would give Jean the helmet. IDK to me it doesn't feel like Jean will be a big part of this book. Hopefully I'm wrong but I feel the book will probably heavily focus on Domino, Wolverine, Beast and Quire.

I think she will be a big part of the book. I wonder if the helmet is killing Xavier after all. Perhaps Jean is the only TP strong enough to use it long term.

[BitParallel]

To Jott fans, how y’all still stan-ing this ship 2 decades later? Y’all won’t even settle for polyamory lel How come y’all are passionate after all these years? I need some of that in my real life.

Oh, I hope this doesn’t come off as offensive, I am trying to understand what makes this ship iconic after all the mess/betrayal it went through.

[JaimeRustlingster]

To me personally, it seems more interesting if it’s Scott/Emma/Jean and with Logan not involved.

I mean he has so many other options. Even from HOX at least it read to me more like Logan was friends but the interaction between Jean/Emma/Scott was more intimate.

[BitParallel]

To me personally, it seems more interesting if it’s Scott/Emma/Jean and with Logan not involved.

I mean he has so many other options. Even from HOX at least it read to me more like Logan was friends but the interaction between Jean/Emma/Scott was more intimate.

But Jean/Scott/Emma is so basic. I wants to see DVs and DPs, women are always expected to participate in threesomes but the devil threesome is frowned upon. Mutants are progressives though, so I expect an orgy.