Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[phoenixzero23]

Reminds me of Jean's ending in the old X-Men Mutant Academy 2 game.

Cute. I hope that even if we aren't going to see much of the relationship on the comic books at least other media can treat their relationship better.

[lancer]

The costume in that video reminds me of the one Jean wore when Claremont returned to the main X books in 2000.

[MechaJeanix]

Makes sense. Just another reason why HCT will stay buried. As time passes, HCT becomes less and less relevant anyway. It was mostly about putting Scott and Emma together, and it seems that's unlikely to be resurrected. The power of HCT is context for how that ship got off the ground in Astonishing. It just wouldn't have the same impact now, even if it did see the light of day for some reason.

I hate that Jean doesn't remember and fans and bio writers seem to ignore the caption on those pages that say "Now" as opposed to 150 years in the future. Jean and her phoenix stories always seem to suffer the retcon. Not to long ago (last year?) on twitter JDW did acknowledge Jean pushing Scott and Emma together so who knows... one day it may be brought back up.

As much as I like Scott/Jean I do wish they remain apart for a while. My fear is Jean falling into the girlfriend/wife/mother. I think the current creators already see Jean in these terms which is very frustrating. I think Jean should be allowed to grow and change and be challenged just like Scott was allowed to evolve while she was dead.

[Havok83]

Scott was almost put in Jean's Red color scheme (with some yellow)

[Ulfhammer]

I hate that Jean doesn't remember and fans and bio writers seem to ignore the caption on those pages that say "Now" as opposed to 150 years in the future. Jean and her phoenix stories always seem to suffer the retcon. Not to long ago (last year?) on twitter JDW did acknowledge Jean pushing Scott and Emma together so who knows... one day it may be brought back up.

I think the X-Office has a clear understanding of what happened. To those who are unwilling to believe it, no evidence will change their minds. I think the reason it won't be brought up is that it doesn't serve the direction that Marvel has taken since it happened. When they were trying to push Emma and Scott, HCT was counter to that narrative. Not that they are unlikely to go down that path, HCT's relevance is unclear. Does it help get Jean and Scott back together? Not really. If anything it drives them apart. If Marvel doesn't want them together, then the fact that Scott and Emma were only a thing because Jean said so, doesn't really help with that narrative either. It's just an inconvenient plot device that's part of ancient history.

As for Jean suffering from retcons, well, I'll have to disagree with you on that. If not for the original DPS retcon, Jean's story would likely be very different than it is today and I don't think it would be for the better.

As much as I like Scott/Jean I do wish they remain apart for a while. My fear is Jean falling into the girlfriend/wife/mother. I think the current creators already see Jean in these terms which is very frustrating. I think Jean should be allowed to grow and change and be challenged just like Scott was allowed to evolve while she was dead.

I find it interesting that a number of people like Scott and Jean together, just not right now. It's been dead for 15 years. It's not like we've had Jott overload.

As for Jean "falling" into the wife/girlfriend/mother role, I don't see how that's bad. She is a mother. That's a fact. How does denying that help her? I don't think she particularly suffered from being a spouse either. She was probably more independent after she got married then she ever was before. Her and Scott were on separate teams, and she certainly didn't decrease her profile afterward. I also know a number of wifes and mothers who would disagree with you that those roles don't offer growth. In fact, most mothers I know said they grew more as a person after motherhood than they ever did before.

If your real concern is that somehow that's all Jean would be, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Jean has been either a girlfriend, wife or mother, for the vast majority of her publication life. Clearly that hasn't hurt the character since she has legions of fans. They obviously like what she has been and her history. Why suspect Marvel is going to play it any different now? Marvel is doubling down on Jean and has been since she was back. If anything, Scott's the one at risk to be subsumed if they get back together. I know a number of posters who see that as a very real possibility and want him as far away from her as possible. I don't share their concern per se, but I certainly understand where it's coming from.

[GarDian]

As for Jean "falling" into the wife/girlfriend/mother role, I don't see how that's bad. She is a mother. That's a fact. How does denying that help her? I don't think she particularly suffered from being a spouse either. She was probably more independent after she got married then she ever was before. Her and Scott were on separate teams, and she certainly didn't decrease her profile afterward. I also know a number of wifes and mothers who would disagree with you that those roles don't offer growth. In fact, most mothers I know said they grew more as a person after motherhood than they ever did before.
m.

I agree with this. I was going to post something similar but decided not to because it might come off in a wrong way. I thnik we all take steps into adulthood. And becoming parent to me is the biggest step (so far). And I'd imagine that it is even more impactful for a woman/mother since you know, the baby actually comes out of her.

So when I say not right now for Jott (but now would also be good), I only mean that I want their reconcilliation to be long and organic but not really full of problems. If you get what I mean. Though I'm sure I'm not speaking for all.

[Ulfhammer]

I agree with this. I was going to post something similar but decided not to because it might come off in a wrong way. I thnik we all take steps into adulthood. And becoming parent to me is the biggest step (so far). And I'd imagine that it is even more impactful for a woman/mother since you know, the baby actually comes out of her.

So when I say not right now for Jott (but now would also be good), I only mean that I want their reconcilliation to be long and organic but not really full of problems. If you get what I mean. Though I'm sure I'm not speaking for all.

There's really two schools of thought about how a potential reconciliation would occur. There's the hand waving approach that jumps right off of PR and say's it's all in the past. Forget it and move on from that moment. Then their the more painful but more realistic and rewarding approach of working through their marital breakdown brick by brick. This is of course how a couple would succeed in the real world. This isn't the real world and Jean and Scott are often seen as a fairy tale romance. I don't subscribe to that interpretation but some clearly do.

Here's what it comes down to for me. Does Marvel ever really want Scott and Jean to continue to progress as a couple? If they do then they need to work through the problems that destroyed their marriage in NXM. Prior to that run they were effective and affectionate partners who's feelings for each other had matured. They became more an intellectual romance than purely an emotionally driven one. That's the hallmark of a couple that can go the distance because they aren't slaves to fickle emotions. Morrison took that maturity and inverted it with a wave of a magic wand. Marvel shouldn't attempt to do the same in reverse.

Everywhere you look in comic books there's a push towards more reality. There's more representations of different lifestyles, races, orientations and perspectives. Art direction is toning down the idealized look of many characters. Real world social issues are being tackled left and right. If this is what comics are going to continue to be about going forward, then I think Marvel should address a modern phenomenon that's effecting a huge part of the population and that's failed marriages. The X-Book's have always taken an optimistic view of social development. They've been grounded in the idea that no matter how bad it is, it can always get better. Jean and Scott's failed marriage is a perfect candidate for Marvel to show that reconciliation is possible.

I hope they will take this difficult social issue head on. Reconciliation is ugly, emotionally punishing and will often fail. For a couple like Scott and Jean I feel it's worth it. It's worth it to preserve their long history, to reforge their family back together, and to give some hope to those who struggle with marital problems that if you have the desire and the will, many fundamental issues can be overcome. If Marvel prefers to depict a relationship that was as committed and survived as much as Scott and Jean's did as disposable, I think that sends the wrong message.

Obviously there are cases where divorce is probably for the best, specifically in situations of emotional, psychological or physical abuse. That's not the case here. To suggest that it's somehow better to throw away a relationship rather than put in the effort to see if can be made whole again is desperately shortsighted and feeds into societies worst tendencies towards choosing what's easy instead of what's right.

[TheDeadSpace]

Scott was almost put in Jean's Red color scheme (with some yellow)

Scott's costume looks like the Claremont/Byrne era costume without the head cap and a few color swaps. I never really liked his initial x-factor uniform, but seeing this always makes me appreciate it more. That being said, who were they trying to fool with the fifth member. Everything pointed at Jean.

[phoenixzero23]

Weird, this is the cover of marvelous x-men #4
I think it is cute. many people forget they were married and loved each other a lot for long
Dz3iOlqV4AAE5y7.jpg

[ThePhoenix]

Weird, this is the cover of marvelous x-men #4
I think it is cute. many people forget they were married and loved each other a lot for long
Dz3iOlqV4AAE5y7.jpg

They still do and will be together at the end.

[MarvelMaster616]

Weird, this is the cover of marvelous x-men #4
I think it is cute. many people forget they were married and loved each other a lot for long
Dz3iOlqV4AAE5y7.jpg

I don’t usually put too much stock into cover art since they rarely reflect what actually happens. But this is still very sweet. It nicely shows the love, closeness, and passion between these two. The fact it’s such a no-no in Age of X-Man only makes it sweeter.

[AHRNIHAL]

Weird, this is the cover of marvelous x-men #4
I think it is cute. many people forget they were married and loved each other a lot for long

Umm,what???

[phoenixzero23]

Umm,what???

yes, i mean for some people their relationship was just the affair with emma. They forget that there was a long way for them to be married and that when they were married they were stable and cute (also they were married for more than a decade if we count adventures of cyclops and phoenix)
my point is that their relationship is more than how their marriage was butchered. It was something beautiful and long, with many great stories.

[Wiccan]

yes, i mean for some people their relationship was just the affair with emma. They forget that there was a long way for them to be married and that when they were married they were stable and cute (also they were married for more than a decade if we count adventures of cyclops and phoenix)
my point is that their relationship is more than how their marriage was butchered. It was something beautiful and long, with many great stories.

I don't think most people forget anything. They usually talk about the affair, Scemma and whatever because it was the most recent state of their relationship before Jean died. And/or because they prefer Scemma.

[Del torro]

I don't think most people forget anything. They usually talk about the affair, Scemma and whatever because it was the most recent state of their relationship before Jean died. And/or because they prefer Scemma.

I've seen people say the Scemma relationship lasted longer than Jott, in marvel time