Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Retcon]

Well at least there’s the movie to look forward too. That’s the only thing set in stone this year.

[JeisonWolf]

Well at least there’s the movie to look forward too. That’s the only thing set in stone this year.

Jean and Scott have difficulties to be separated from each other, even when they were in separate teams constantly made cameos in the other's comic, the most important despite being in separate books was at this time when they were married.
Now if this movie is good and even more so if it correctly represents Jott and it is not another silly thing about Logan, Magneto, Xavier or Mystique ... this will make people love the couple even more and it can be a good thing for the next movies and also for comics.

[lancer]

I'm not Jack, but I took a crack at it here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4059076

IF--and that's a pretty big IF--a Scott and Jean reunion is in the offing, I suspect they've been saving it for Hickman. Regardless, I doubt we're going to get a thoughtful reconciliation that acknowledges the depth of their history and depicts them working through their issues. Marvel doesn't want to deal with the baggage. If we get Jott back at all, I suspect it's going to be them starting over again from zero, not picking up where they left off, hence White's confirmation that they're no longer married.

So, it's official? White stated they were no longer married? That is certainly less complications if they want to tease or put them with other people.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the post above mine. Jean and Scott were not on separate teams during the marriage. They were for a bit in the early 90s but that was before the marriage. The separate teams were pretty much done away with after 20 plus issues. There weren't separate teams by book again for years after that.

[v_jeovanne]

So, it's official? White stated they were no longer married?

That is certainly less complications if they want to tease or put them with other people.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the post above mine. Jean and Scott were not on separate teams during the marriage. They were for a bit in the early 90s but that was before the marriage. The separate teams were pretty much done away with after 20 plus issues. There weren't separate teams by book again for years after that.

His response was that they are not married anymore because they are not the same characters. that I interpret as not giving a satisfactory answer and we will mix all the decades of its history to try to solve this problem.

[lancer]

Okay. That answer doesn't read as clear cut. I thought it might have been something like her death nullified the marriage.

[v_jeovanne]

Okay. That answer doesn't read as clear cut. I thought it might have been something like her death nullified the marriage.

Well, it is that an answer like yours would be quite conclusive. And they still continue to sell X-men # 30.

[Retcon]

The Editors are unmarried therefore the characters are unmarried. Interesting how that works

[MechaJeanix]

I really don’t understand the concept of ppl who don’t support a relationship posting in an appreciation thread that is in favor of the relationship. I guess im just new here.

I'm not sure who this is directed at but I can be quite critical of "ships' and this one in particular. However, Scott and Jean are my main favorite X-men (with Jean being the #1) and I've said it numerous times that while I did like them together I also like them apart. I just feel often times the gf/wife character plays second fiddle to the male character or she doesn't get to become as fully complex character as the male. I think Jean should be allowed to progress and unfortunately writers do not write most couples well and I feel that Jean could be a better character without Scott.

My fav episodes of X-Men evolution are the ones about Scott and Jean. It is the same with X-Men The Animated Series and Wolverine and the X-Men. Heck, my favorite X-Men stories feature both (Morrison's run, Phoenix and Dark Phoenix stories, X-cutioner's Song, etc).

I'm a bit of a contrarian, and again I've never liked "shipping", but I do love both these characters and I do think that ultimately they will reunite.
Another pet peeve of mine (and it may just be bias) is how some fans see Jean as an extension of Cyclops or do not see her as her own character but inherently the gf/wife character (the character exists to support Cyclops or to be used as a prop for his on-going man pain).

[Wiccan]

Oh, you're opening a can of worms here...

[FUBAR007]

Okay. That answer doesn't read as clear cut. I thought it might have been something like her death nullified the marriage.

Here's the conversation in question:

[Question]: Before I let you go, I’d like to revisit death again… specifically the “till death do us part” line in wedding vows. Scott Summers and Jean Grey may not be in the same reality right now–but they’re both alive in some form. Are they still considered to be married to one another or did both their deaths officially end their marriage?

[Jordan White's response]: Great question! I would think yes–their marriage was likely legally dissolved. Jean was pretty clearly dead for a while there, I am confident they had her legally categorized as dead and executed her will. Yes, she came back… but what matters is the legal status. Much like if a person is missing for a very long time and declared dead, their spouse is legally released from the marriage.

If you want to get even weirder when you think about it, there’s this: the wedding of these two people actually never happened. The Cyclops who married Jean died in issue #1 of Secret Wars. He was replaced by a recreated version who was created with the memory of having married her… but that event never actually happened. Has there ever been a ruling on the legal distinction between events that occurred and those that exist only in forged history and memory?

Source: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04...ever-happened/

[Retcon]

I think it’s resolved. Legally unmarried due to both parties dying. They didn’t have too OMD them. The Marriage Court already did.

[FUBAR007]

I'm not sure who this is directed at but I can be quite critical of "ships' and this one in particular.

You're entitled to your opinion. Just as we are to ours.

However, Scott and Jean are my main favorite X-men (with Jean being the #1) and I've said it numerous times that while I did like them together I also like them apart. I just feel often times the gf/wife character plays second fiddle to the male character or she doesn't get to become as fully complex character as the male. I think Jean should be allowed to progress and unfortunately writers do not write most couples well and I feel that Jean could be a better character without Scott.

I disagree. Jean progressing and being happily paired with Scott aren't mutually exclusive things. Psychological development doesn't end with marriage. Quite the opposite.

I often find this kind of argument to be a passive-aggressive way of expressing 1) "Jott fatigue" and 2) a desire to see Jean portrayed as a young, single early-20s woman shopping around and having fun.

I'm increasingly convinced Marvel just needs to let Kelly Thompson or Seanan McGuire do an "Untold Tales of Spider-Man"/"X-Men First Class"-type prequel series set during the early Claremont era when Jean and Scott were on-and-off, and Jean was living in Manhattan with Misty Knight. They can show Jean exploring her sexuality, coming into her own as an adult, and all that stuff. Hell, Claremont himself would probably come back to do it.

I'm a bit of a contrarian, and again I've never liked "shipping", but I do love both these characters and I do think that ultimately they will reunite.
Another pet peeve of mine (and it may just be bias) is how some fans see Jean as an extension of Cyclops or do not see her as her own character but inherently the gf/wife character (the character exists to support Cyclops or to be used as a prop for his on-going man pain).

Which is a bizarre and baseless reading of their relationship. Jean was almost always in the driver's seat. After her resurrection in 1986, they didn't get back together until she wanted to. They didn't get married until she wanted to--when Scott proposed to her, she rejected him. They finally got engaged when she proposed to him. Even Morrison's stated intent for the cause of their break-up was that Jean had frozen Scott out and "stopped being his wife." Jean is the dominant partner in the relationship.

Honestly, I think all this "Jean-as-appendage" stuff is some kind of meta-meme derived from fandom politics and a mis-remembered caricature of her portrayal in the 90s cartoon. The published canon simply doesn't bear it out.

RE: shipping, your response suggests to me you enjoy Scott and Jean as a storyline--an entertaining vehicle of drama and conflict--moreso than as a relationship you're emotionally invested in and want to see succeed. Which is a valid position; ultimately, it's all a matter of taste. (And, FWIW, that puts you more in sync with Marvel editorial's views than my views are.)

Speaking for myself, I "ship" Scott and Jean because, first, their historical relationship emotionally resonated with me and, second, I viewed it not as a cyclical plot device to generate drama and conflict but as a linear narrative building toward a particular future and the next generation of the mythos. Scott and Jean would eventually succeed Xavier, have children that were truly theirs--no more cross-time and clone hoo-ha, and grow into "elder statesmen" roles mentoring the new X-Men of their kids' generation similar to the JSA/Infinity, Inc. model. Consequently, when Morrison broke them up, I felt cheated. (And that's not even getting into the adultery element.)

Now, the better part of two decades later, I'm much wiser about "illusion of change", the conventions of commercial superhero comics, the sliding timeline shenanigans of quietly de-aging characters every decade or so, and never, ever letting them age or mature past a certain point. It's unlikely in the extreme that I'm ever go to see the kinds of Scott and Jean stories I want so I don't expect it. I don't like it, but I got it. And, I voted with my money a long time ago--I stopped buying the books regularly.

Nevertheless, comments that shit on Jott and its place in the mythos, that diminish it, mock it, misread it, or dismiss it, still really, really rub me wrong. The emotional investment is still there. I suppose it's a credit to Claremont's writing of the couple (and Simonson's, Lobdell's, and Nicieza's)--they made me care. That's where the shipping comes from. I expect the other frequent posters in this thread would tell you something similar.

[Retcon]

I agree with Fubar007. That being said. Before Morrison deconstructed the relationship there were already holes. In the UXM issue where Scott went camping with Corsair he revealed they didn’t even talk about having kids because Scott was concerned he would be a shitty Dad.

[v_jeovanne]

I agree with Fubar007. That being said. Before Morrison deconstructed the relationship there were already holes. In the UXM issue where Scott went camping with Corsair he revealed they didn’t even talk about having kids because Scott was concerned he would be a shitty Dad.

In the twelve, there is a scene where Scott and Jean talk about taking the time to talk about having children.

[lancer]

I agree with Fubar007. That being said. Before Morrison deconstructed the relationship there were already holes. In the UXM issue where Scott went camping with Corsair he revealed they didn’t even talk about having kids because Scott was concerned he would be a shitty Dad.

I liked how Lobdell wrote them individually and as a couple. That said, I think he missed the boat with this issue. First off, with Scott and his father. They had settled those issues a long time ago.
As was said above, the line about children contradicts them discussing having a family already.

I remember one conversation because of what Jean said. Scott's line was something like, Jean, maybe it's time we started talking about having a family. Jean's reply was, just talk? I think I saw a post of yours calling her a prude. So much for that. Didn't say she was kinky, but there is a ways between that and being a prude.