Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Decoy]

You mean the whole plan around "I'm bringing Scott back... screw the consequences" and "Cable has to die because he's not protecting the timeline from the terrible consequences coming"? His plan was wildly inconsistent but I won't complain. Bringing Scott back was all he really needed to do to ensure that his parents had another shot.

Good point......Cable probably knows that all it would take would one seeing the other......I feel that Emma was a substitute that other writers where forced to work with (imagine you just got the gig, ready to say write Scott and Jean together, but then learn a previous writer killed Jean off, and Quesada was very adamant back then on “dead is dead” he had, which was shot to hell when Whedon brought Colossus back, but anyway the new writers where prevented for years to bring Jean back, and that time was longer than her first death) due to editorial mandate......who knows what will go down in July......best case scenario, Scott and Jean are back together (not sure in the marriage part, but if the Heroes from Heroes Reborn where able to reestablish their legal statuses, then it shouldn’t be too hard), maybe Hickman would be allowed to actually, gasp, one day introduce the 616 Rachel Summers......one thing I’m surprised that previous writers didn’t get to do......unless that was Seagle’s idea eventually, let Scott and Jean actually have a child (whether or not Rachel would have even a semi normal childhood is up in the air, but since her brother was sent into the future to be raised by her parents, and the fact she’d be surrounded by other Mutants, the Mansion constantly being trashed, Sentinels attacking every few years, then have Sinister very interested in her plus the Shi’ar.......nope, Rachel would probably be raised like her brother or niece, raised elsewhen until her Powers kick in to defend herself)

[FUBAR007]

...best case scenario, Scott and Jean are back together (not sure in the marriage part, but if the Heroes from Heroes Reborn where able to reestablish their legal statuses, then it shouldn’t be too hard), maybe Hickman would be allowed to actually, gasp, one day introduce the 616 Rachel Summers......one thing I’m surprised that previous writers didn’t get to do......unless that was Seagle’s idea eventually, let Scott and Jean actually have a child (whether or not Rachel would have even a semi normal childhood is up in the air, but since her brother was sent into the future to be raised by her parents, and the fact she’d be surrounded by other Mutants, the Mansion constantly being trashed, Sentinels attacking every few years, then have Sinister very interested in her plus the Shi’ar.......nope, Rachel would probably be raised like her brother or niece, raised elsewhen until her Powers kick in to defend herself)

Lobdell intended for Jean to get pregnant with 616 Rachel after she and Scott returned from the future. That was why Lobdell wrote Jean and Rachel's reconciliation in Excalibur #71. But, Harras vetoed the idea.

Seagle intended for Jean to become Phoenix again, but be fully in control this time. At the same time, she, Scott, and the O5 would reunite and become an active team again. But, Marvel editorial preempted Seagle's plans in favor of the renegade Cerebro storyline.

[Decoy]

One theory I saw in the Extermination Thread that there could be a convergence of events......the end of AoX Omega, Stryfe messing with the past, and whatever Emma is plotting could lead to a retcon of X History in some fashion......maybe some changes that would undo the slide the X-Men have been on..... (perhaps, probably chronicled a bit in Powers of X, they explain how Frost, Mystique, Magneto, Toad, Sabertooth are on the team......best way would be retcon recent history)......on to the thread topic.....is it feasible that the retcon, under the best case scenario, would perhaps change how Morrison’s run went (i.e. Scott and Jean’s marriage not crumbling before her death.....if they want to have Jean not be around for a few months then have the Phoenix Force put her in another healing cocoon after Xorn unleashed the EMP on her, until say Elixer Joining the New X-Men Or House of M,....they can have Emma be on the Astonishing Team, but now her relationship with Scott is now professional, with Jean being in the cocoon in the medbay until her injuries heal, only this time the team knows she’s down there.......). Wishful thinking, or is it.....if they do a major retcon which modifies events for the last decade or so, off panel initially until either a future annual or series details fully what changed.( like say if they give Cyclops and Jean their own duo series).....they could still have Ord revive Colossus, House of M/ Decimation/ Deadly Genesis, etc, but perhaps events are slightly different.....not sure how Schism/ AvX/ IvX/ etc would play out, but if they could somehow just kinda retcon away Dissembled/AoX that would be another start (though keep Gambit marrying Rogue, it is something Remy would do, kinda steal a wedding.....heck, he’d probably use some con skills to stay in the Mojoverse till the reality warp passes, so maybe Gambit and Rogue would remember what went down)......if Marvel is willing to change so much X History, not just for Cyclops’ love life but several events around Marvel, it would be like One More Day’s changes.......initially hinted at but expanded on later......only no Mephisto Involvement......and it could conceivably undo the Rise of Anti Mutant Hysteria #2012/4 going on now......

Instead, odds are they’ll just not really mention AoX directly at all, and maybe just restart/ reconcile Scott and Jean, The less said about the intervening years, the better (the most likely outcome.....but temporal/ reality warping changes would explain some inconsistencies with Emma’s return to the team after Hellfire Club, or even Mystique......given right now they’re plotting something...... guess July would have the answers)

[Decoy]

Lobdell intended for Jean to get pregnant with 616 Rachel after she and Scott returned from the future. That was why Lobdell wrote Jean and Rachel's reconciliation in Excalibur #71. But, Harras vetoed the idea.

Seagle intended for Jean to become Phoenix again, but be fully in control this time. At the same time, she, Scott, and the O5 would reunite and become an active team again. But, Marvel editorial preempted Seagle's plans in favor of the renegade Cerebro storyline.

I thought so on Lobdell’s part, it would have made sense (though Jean would have been inactive for 9 to 11 months (9 months for the pregnancy, 2 for maternity leave), seems like they where so hopeful to actually have the relationship go further but AOA/ Onslaught/ OZT kinda derailed that for Lobdell.....kinda a shame since Jean already showed she was great with kids, raising Nathan with Scott and all.......

I thought so, since Seagle went to trouble to put Jean back in the Green and Gold and reunited the Original Five, but then Psi War happened and Jean’s powers where gone till near Astonishing vol 2/ The Twelve

Then Morrison f#&#ed everything up, had Scott get into a mental affair with Emma, kill Jean, have a Future Jean basically nudge Scott and Emma into a full relationship.......come on Timey Retcon, fix this gaffe!

[Omega Alpha]

Hickman won't retcon Morrison's entire run; quite opposite, it's pretty clear what he seems to want something in that sense, that moves the X-men forward, he's writing about the X-men writers telling stories about other stories, focusing on the past (most notably Gold, but the 05 was a big case of that too).

[FUBAR007]

Then Morrison f#&#ed everything up, had Scott get into a mental affair with Emma, kill Jean, have a Future Jean basically nudge Scott and Emma into a full relationship.......come on Timey Retcon, fix this gaffe!

While I don't disagree about Morrison's run, I sincerely doubt Marvel is going to retcon it at this point. Ignore it and move on? Maybe. But, no retcon. Too many writers and editors consider it holy writ. Jordan White has referred to the affair as brilliant and wonderful.

If we're lucky, we'll get a halfway decent Jott reunion. It's been almost two decades since Scott and Jean were truly a couple so perhaps it's been long enough that what's old is new again, and Marvel will consider their relationship enough a novelty to revisit. But, I ain't holding my breath.

My suspicion is they'll be reset to will-they-or-won't-they mode with a triangle or two thrown in. Scott silently pining for Jean from a distance while Jean, despite still loving him, suppresses her feelings out of commitment to an ideal of moving on that she can't articulate or explain. They'll be friends and respectful colleagues but with lots of neurotic angst and longing roiling under the surface. I also expect some postmodern, pop-psych bullshit about co-dependency, "outgrowing each other", and generally shallow, trite commentary on what constitutes a healthy romance.

[FUBAR007]

Hickman won't retcon Morrison's entire run; quite opposite, it's pretty clear what he seems to want something in that sense, that moves the X-men forward, he's writing about the X-men writers telling stories about other stories, focusing on the past (most notably Gold, but the 05 was a big case of that too).

You hate Jott. You're an anti-shipper. Why are you even posting in this thread?

[phoenixzero23]

Lobdell intended for Jean to get pregnant with 616 Rachel after she and Scott returned from the future. That was why Lobdell wrote Jean and Rachel's reconciliation in Excalibur #71. But, Harras vetoed the idea.

Seagle intended for Jean to become Phoenix again, but be fully in control this time. At the same time, she, Scott, and the O5 would reunite and become an active team again. But, Marvel editorial preempted Seagle's plans in favor of the renegade Cerebro storyline.

I wonder what would have happened.
I doubt Jean would have been killed (and for so long) and i doubt her marriage would have been butchered. I mean, on marvel there have been marriages who have ended, like mockingbird/hawkeye or wanda/vision but those stories don't exactly destroy the relationship. I marvel didn't want them married it would have been cool to chose a more sensitive and respectful aproach. It is sad because has i said before some people only define them by the single story that treat their relationship like crap (which is a surprise because they also have the most iconic x-men story of all time that people repeat all the time but somehow ignore the jean/scott part of it).
it is really uncomfortable, It is like defining emma only for her time as a villain or Bishop for that story were he hunted Hope. Jott is also way more than morrison's run.

[phoenixzero23]

The biggest question is where they will be reunited post AOX. I fear it may happen in UXM and I dont want that as I dont like Rosenberg's writing. If it doesnt happen there, I dont think we'll get one as I think Hickman's run will have a small time jump with Scott and Jean having reunited off panel

Sadly i agree. I don't think we will get one. Which seems like a waste. After so long one could think they have a lot to talk about.
that being said, Scott and Emma's reunion doesn't seem like it is going to be a great thing either.

[Omega Alpha]

You hate Jott. You're an anti-shipper. Why are you even posting in this thread?

I don't hate much related to comics- while there's obviously things I dislike, some a lot, seems kinda silly to hate fictional characters. And there's nothing preventing me from posting here, specially considering what I said isn't even related to the pairing directly, just that Hickman won't retcon Morrison's entire run because some people didn't like what he did.

[FUBAR007]

I wonder what would have happened.

Had Lobdell or Seagle gotten their way, I suspect Scott and Jean would've "graduated" to roles in the X-franchise analogous to the roles Reed and Sue fill in Fantastic Four--the grown-ups, the stabilizers, the authority figures, the institution builders. Scott and Jean would've gradually taken over for Xavier. Scott would train the next generation of X-Men; Jean would play a leading role in the school and the mutant rights movement. All while raising little Rachel and any subsequent kids.

There's a treasure trove of stories to be told there. Even though it's been nearly two decades since Morrison split them up, it still pisses me off that we never got those stories. And that we never will.

[FUBAR007]

I don't hate much related to comics- while there's obviously things I dislike, some a lot, seems kinda silly to hate fictional characters.

It's a hyperbolic figure of speech, but you know that. Your passive-aggressive condescension is duly noted.

[Havok83]

Had Lobdell or Seagle gotten their way, I suspect Scott and Jean would've "graduated" to roles in the X-franchise analogous to the roles Reed and Sue fill in Fantastic Four--the grown-ups, the stabilizers, the authority figures, the institution builders. Scott and Jean would've gradually taken over for Xavier. Scott would train the next generation of X-Men; Jean would play a leading role in the school and the mutant rights movement. All while raising little Rachel and any subsequent kids.

There's a treasure trove of stories to be told there. Even though it's been nearly two decades since Morrison split them up, it still pisses me off that we never got those stories. And that we never will.

Im not sure that would exactly happen bc the school wasnt based at the school during that time. That was with Gen X and Emma and Banshee. It was only after Gen X was cancelled that the Xavier mansion opened itself up to students where Scott and Jean could have filled this role but we unfortunately saw that Morrison did with that

[lancer]

Too many writers and editors consider it holy writ. Jordan White has referred to the affair as brilliant and wonderful.

You got that right about other writers. Starting with Whedon. White used those words? I thought he was a Jott fan. I thought I'd read that posted here. Am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember that he liked Morrison. But to use those words about the affair specifically?

Is he a Scemma and Jott? Well, that has always baffled me. I get being one or the other, but I don't get both. Scemma was built on tearing down Jott. I liked both Peter/Gwen and Peter/MJ. However, one wasn't built up by taking a dump on the other.

Again, it has always puzzled me. As always tastes differ. Whatever floats your boat. Even without the affair, I could have never gotten behind Scemma. It would still be built on Jott not working anymore. My distaste for it would have been dialed down several notches. But a fan? No.

Anyway, I would think it would be concerning for Jott fans to have this guy editing the X books.

[spirit2011]

I thought so on Lobdell’s part, it would have made sense (though Jean would have been inactive for 9 to 11 months (9 months for the pregnancy, 2 for maternity leave), seems like they where so hopeful to actually have the relationship go further but AOA/ Onslaught/ OZT kinda derailed that for Lobdell.....kinda a shame since Jean already showed she was great with kids, raising Nathan with Scott and all.......

I thought so, since Seagle went to trouble to put Jean back in the Green and Gold and reunited the Original Five, but then Psi War happened and Jean’s powers where gone till near Astonishing vol 2/ The Twelve

Then Morrison f#&#ed everything up, had Scott get into a mental affair with Emma, kill Jean, have a Future Jean basically nudge Scott and Emma into a full relationship.......come on Timey Retcon, fix this gaffe!

If Marvel really want to put Jott together, they should retcon or give some more context to Morrison and Whedon run.
It wil piss off fans any way, but they need to justify things