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  1. #841
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Lorna is best occupying an "inbetween" moral/philosophical space IMO

    At this point with this status quo, as others have noted, that has shifted... if you asked me bout a year ago I was kinda despairing at there really BEING any "inbetween" now... almost everybody lives there lol.....
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Lorna is best occupying an "inbetween" moral/philosophical space IMO

    At this point with this status quo, as others have noted, that has shifted... if you asked me bout a year ago I was kinda despairing at there really BEING any "inbetween" now... almost everybody lives there lol.....
    Magneto hasn't been out to dominate humanity or rule the word in two decades so much brandied about idea of her marking out some middle ground doesn't work and hasn't in many years. The distance between Xavier and Magneto faction is inches rather then miles these days and it was at best yards apart the past few years. You know that too as you said.

    Its better in my view to see Lorna as the inheritor of her fathers dream and Scott the inheritor of his surrogate fathers dream or you are left trying to create or force space where there really isn't much to be had and probably none to be had these days.
    Last edited by jmc247; 10-17-2019 at 08:32 PM.

  3. #843

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    Cross-postin time!

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post




    I commissioned this from BoxOfWant, who previously did a 50th anniversary piece for me last year. The idea of a Halloween pic of Lorna and Wanda dressed as a knight and a witch is one I've had for a long time, and I'm glad to finally get something in that covers it.

    There was discussion about saving it for Halloween, but I thought that if it got out now, perhaps it'll inspire some Halloween cosplay.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

  4. #844
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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  5. #845
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Out of topic but I always found kind of cute, weird and sad the fact that when Pietro finds himself in a world he doesn´t recognize anymore and no longer can interact with anyone, his first thought is to go with "that guy who used to be his father but no longer is, it is complicated" to play him a joke, instead of looking for a way out or going to Wanda or his girlfriend like he actually doesn´t seem to have talked with Magneto after the AXIS retcon and feels betrayed by him because he has gotten in his head it´s somehow Magneto´s fault they are no longer related but still he´s one of the ppl he has to protect from one of his "dark selves" whose only motivation seemed to be hurt people Pietro loved or liked. It´s sad because it seems he only can talk about his feelings towards Magneto when Magneto can´t hear him. It would be interesting to see a little more of this in the future if marvel indeed is going to undo the retcon or establish a new relationship between them post retcon.

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-19-2019 at 06:49 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  6. #846

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    That was both funny and sad. The way Pietro can’t bring himself to say just what Max means to him in a positive or even neutral way because the negative was so painful and sensitive to him. Despite that, he shows it it terms of the prank and saving him. Magneto is the one of the strongest influences in terms of personal and philosophical development both in and out of universe. Pietro, even after the retcon, still defines and measures himself against Max. It’s a really fascinating story of father and son, master and not so unwilling apprentice, king and rebellious heir who nonetheless craves his sire’s acknowledgement if not love, and the love he has for someone who has also hurt him so much and who he has wanted to hurt as much in return.

    In a related note, I wonder if Magneto ever realized what happened, and his reaction. Personally, I think he’d feel more rueful amusement on a good day, or irritation at yet another lack of respect from his ‘only son’ on a bad one, toward the prank. Towards the rescue, I think he would try to deny what that means to him, but actually be touched by Pietro still caring about his ‘father’. I wonder if he would be reminded of that time in Genosha from Magneto Rex when Pietro saved him from the Zealot after Magneto showed up to save him from Zealot.
    Last edited by teapartyofthedead; 10-19-2019 at 08:00 PM.

  7. #847
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    That was both funny and sad. The way Pietro can’t bring himself to say just what Max means to him in a positive or even neutral way because the negative was so painful and sensitive to him. Despite that, he shows it it terms of the prank and saving him. Magneto is the one of the strongest influences in terms of personal and philosophical development both in and out of universe. Pietro, even after the retcon, still defines and measures himself against Max. It’s a really fascinating story of father and son, master and unwilling apprentice, king and rebellious heir who nonetheless craves his sire’s acknowledgement of not love, and the love he has for someone who has also hurt him so much and who he has wanted to hurt as much in return.
    That is a such beautiful and accurate description of their relationship

  8. #848

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    That is a such beautiful and accurate description of their relationship
    Thank you! I think of it as basically if Darth Vader had found Luke (and Leia) and trained them without realizing their genetic relationship. It’s a goldmine of stories and I can’t believe Marvel squandered that potential and then threw it away.

  9. #849
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    Pietro and Magneto was Marvel's best father/son relationship. It will be back, but if it doesn't get integrated into the MCU then it might be another 5 years.

    Last edited by jmc247; 10-19-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  10. #850
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    That was both funny and sad. The way Pietro can’t bring himself to say just what Max means to him in a positive or even neutral way because the negative was so painful and sensitive to him. Despite that, he shows it it terms of the prank and saving him. Magneto is the one of the strongest influences in terms of personal and philosophical development both in and out of universe. Pietro, even after the retcon, still defines and measures himself against Max. It’s a really fascinating story of father and son, master and not so unwilling apprentice, king and rebellious heir who nonetheless craves his sire’s acknowledgement if not love, and the love he has for someone who has also hurt him so much and who he has wanted to hurt as much in return.
    Agreed completely, they are that and more to each other, I wish we could see at least one little moment between them where Max shares his own experiences with his own father and uncle Erich, he took his uncle´s name as his war name "Erik", because his uncle actually wanted to fight back, but keep the respect and loyalty for one´s people and love for family from his father Jacob, both became role models for him and his world view and by extension also Pietro´s, but he doesn´t know that yet and it could be a more positive association that Pietro could make with Max beyond their Brotherhood days.


    In a related note, I wonder if Magneto ever realized what happened, and his reaction. Personally, I think he’d feel more rueful amusement on a good day, or irritation at yet another lack of respect from his ‘only son’ on a bad one, toward the prank. Towards the rescue, I think he would try to deny what that means to him, but actually be touched by Pietro still caring about his ‘father’. I wonder if he would be reminded of that time in Genosha from Magneto Rex when Pietro saved him from the Zealot after Magneto showed up to save him from Zealot.
    Lol this is Magneto post New mutants antics I bet he was both amused and annoyed, especially if he saw the photos but also touched because Pietro still remembers him in his own way, if Age of X-man is anything to go by, as far as Magneto knows Pietro and Wanda are still his children. It´s also quite telling the way Pietro knows EXACTLY were Magneto was considering he faked his death at that time and no one except the X-men were supposed to know were he was living, this means that Pietro no only knows he wasn´t really dead but also knows where he lives, I can see Pietro kind of looking after him in the distance the way he did with Wanda after their fight and Magneto probably knows this because he can feel Pietro´s personal magnetic field.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-19-2019 at 08:31 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    It would be interesting to see a little more of this in the future if marvel indeed is going to undo the retcon or establish a new relationship between them post retcon.
    I would love to see them begin to resolve their issues and expectations of each other, and begin to heal. It’s not as if they loathe each other in every timeline and universe after all. Even in the infamous Ultimate-verse, Max admitted that he loved Pietro, even equal to Wanda.

    As for a new direction, what would that even look like in present day Krakoa? We have Genosha as a template, if an imperfect one. On Genosha, Magneto was king and Quicksilver the heir apparent until Pietro rebelled, was captured, and after refusing to bend the knee, was deported via a Russian merchant ship. As part of one of many factions and influential families, what would his role be: soldier, ambassador, and/or heir to the head of his house once again? He’s had a hand at all three, but from the 90s lens of respectability politics and ‘if you react to the racism then you’re as bad as the racist’ school of political correct comics from Bob Harras. Unfortunately, he liked his Quicksilver white knight heroic at the expense of making Magneto go full cliche world conquering villain with only hints of his actual role as the guardian and general of his people. How would the Avengers react to him aligning with Krakoa and his father’s influence, like he did in Genosha? Would they disavow him, or try to use him to influence Krakoan foreign policy? What would Wanda think? Again, we have Genosha, and her reaction then was less than pleased.

    E2BF3A29-490F-45FF-945D-D916C8BB91EA.jpg
    Last edited by teapartyofthedead; 10-19-2019 at 09:05 PM.

  12. #852
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    I would love to see them begin to resolve their issues and expectations of each other, and begin to heal. ItÂ’s not as if they loathe each other in every timeline and universe after all. Even in the infamous Ultimate-verse, Max admitted that he loved Pietro, even equal to Wanda.

    As for a new direction, what would that even look like in present day Krakoan? We have Genosha as a template, if an imperfect one. On Genosha, Magneto was king and Quicksilver the heir apparent until Pietro rebelled, was captured, and after refusing to bend the knee, was deported via a Russian merchant ship. As part of one of many factions and influential families, what would his role be: soldier, ambassador, and/or heir to the head of his house once again? He’s had a hand at all three, but from the 90s lens of respectability politics and ‘if you react to the racism then you’re as bad as the racist’ school of political correct comics from Bob Harras. Unfortunately, he liked his Quicksilver heroic at the expense of making Magneto go full cliche world villain with only hints of his actual role as the guardian and general of his people.
    Agreed this is exactly my problem with Magneto from the 90´s most of his decisions actually made sense in the circunstances present in the MU but they were taken to a ridicoulous level just because it had to be clear Magneto was a "villain" and all his ideas were "bad" and "dangerous" ,I think Genosha had even greater potential than Krakoa, given they were a previously established nation in the marvel universe and the fact that it had both human and mutants living together and more, normal human beings like Huxley and others had a say at their goverment, for me this was the closest thing in the marvel universe to Xavier´s dream of human-mutant coexistence becoming a reality and the ideal place to develop a human-mutant culture, sadly, just because it was lead by Magneto, it had to be destroyed.

    Now about Krakoa I think Pietro is an interesting case in which Magneto probably would be happy to receive him in his "House of M" as part of his family and who knows, maybe bring him to one of the council´s meetings, Krakoa seems like a nation led by different groups than one unified goverment at this point so I don´t know what part exactly would Pietro play unless he´s given diplomatic role, similar to the one he had when he was in Genosha, given his ties with the Avengers and the Inhumans, it would made sense imo. Also We don´t know what Pietro actual estatus is, Is he a mutant? a mutated human?,a super soldier? does he need especial permission from Krakoa to enter or he´s still a mutant and can claim his place in the country at anytime he wishes? The X-men probably will have some things to say about this but given they have openly given another chance to Apocalypse and Mr Sinister they have no leg to stand of unless they say his relationship with Wanda is the problem imo marvel will have to touch into the retcon and leave more things clear before the characters can interact again and develop new relationships.

    Edit:

    Avengers: I agree with you that they probably will try to talk Pietro into helping them get a way into Krakoa, he was on the Avengers side after all during the AvX crossover the problem is that this will add another layer of mistrust from the X-men towards him given he lately has taken his role as a full member of the Avengers, and we have to remember this time Magneto isn´t the only one in charge, it´s Xavier, Moira and Apocalypse and while I could see Apocalypse being neutral towards Pietro, Xavier really seems to have a grudge with Wanda and Pietro by extension for their role in HoM and what they forced him to do, is it enough not to give Pietro a chance? maybe not but it´s enough for him to keep a close eye on him imo.

    Wanda: She probably would strongly dissagree with Pietro joining the problem is that she also probably admits at least to herself her role in making the X-men and mutantkind in general more radical in their stance and this probably would give her pause in criticizing Pietro for his choices.

    Now I would also like to see Pietro´s own pov, he definitely would like to be around Lorna and X-factor people again but what would he had to say about the members of the mutant council? and if the Avengers and X-men were to fight again in which side will Pietro be?
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-19-2019 at 09:31 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed this is exactly my problem with Magneto from the 90´s most of his decisions actually made sense in the circunstances present in the MU but they were taken to a ridicoulus level just because it had to be clear Magneto was a "villain" and all his ideas were "bad" and "dangerous" ,I think Genosha had even greater potential than even Krakoa, given they were a previously established nation in the marvel universe and the fact that it had both human and mutants living together and more, normal human beings like Huxley and others had a say at their goverment, for me this was the closest thing in the marvel universe to Xavier´s dream of human-mutant coexistence becoming a reality and the ideal place to develop a human-mutant culture, sadly, just because it was lead by Magneto, it had to be destroyed.

    Now about Krakoa I think Pietro is an interesting case in which Magneto probably would be happy to receive him in his "House of M" as part of his family and who knows, maybe bring him to one of the council´s meetings, Krakoa seems like a nation led by different groups than one unified goverment at this point so I don´t know what part exactly would Pietro play unless he´s given diplomatic role, similar to the one he had when he was in Genosha, given his ties with the Avengers and the Inhumans, it would made sense imo. Also We don´t know what Pietro actual estatus is, Is he a mutant? a mutated human?,a super soldier? does he need especial permission from Krakoa to enter or he´s still a mutant and can claim his place in the country at anytime he wishes? The X-men probably will have some things to say about this but given they have openly given another chance to Apocalypse and Mr Sinister they have no leg to stand of unless they say his relationship with Wanda is the problem imo marvel will have to touch into the retcon and leave more things clear before the characters can interact again and develop new relationships.
    I don’t even know what actual political, military or diplomatic role Lorna plays on the island at this point outside a heavy hitter much less have any clue what role Pietro could play. Genosha obviously by virtue of Pietro and Lorna being central to the government in different roles provided meaty roles. Pietro as the advisor and Lorna as the power behind the throne and both in the cabinet.

    But, yes they over the topped Magneto way to early when really there was a good two years left of stories to be had before the inevitable hammer came down on the island.

    Ah, well. On a larger level I do think Lorna fans, Wanda fans, Pietro fans, Magneto fans, and those of Speed, Wiccan, Crystal and Luna have over the years drifted too far apart and it would be nice if something could unite them again.
    Last edited by jmc247; 10-19-2019 at 09:28 PM.

  14. #854
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    But, yes they over the topped Magneto way to early when really there was a good two years left of stories to be had before the inevitable hammer came down on the island. Ah, well. On a larger level I do think Lorna fans, Wanda fans, Pietro fans, Magneto fans, and those of Speed, Wiccan, Crystal and Luna have over the years drifted too far apart and it would be nice if something could unite them again.
    Agreed it would be nice to see the family united at least one more time
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  15. #855

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