Magnus Family Appreciation 2019

[salarta]

Is there a Wanda solo with much more Magneto prominence and sells significant better? (Around the same time?)
Wanda's situation got better these years mainly due to some MCU juice, where is she like ten years ago? What caused she to be funtionallly dead in 2005?
I am saying she didn't lose too much by not being part of the family, or say an inactive part of the family. Her history is already that way, occasional appearance and connecton benefit both sides, it's a bonus, not the source of her life as a character.
The Magnus family (yeah, House of M is a cursed name) ties has its deadly dose, I'd rather just give up the bonus than facing the potential lethal consequences.
Wanda already has very limited resources and unexplored themes/content, and my priority happened not to be Mutant/Magnus related.
The best I can hope for is the ties restored with minimum interference to her current status.
And I want the ties restored because the Wundagore origin s neat.

I'd like to highlight All-New X-Factor #14 again.

It was the second issue in a double shipping month. Marvel did absolutely nothing to promote it. In fact, the company basically sabotaged it by withholding the cover until Friday before release. And yet, unlike the typical trend of sales going down for second issues of double shipping months, sales actually rose by a couple hundred. Why? Because people wanted to read the sisters spending time together.

The same applies to the problem faced by the Wanda solo. People like tangible connections that can lead to deeper drama.

I'm not saying her solo needed Magneto to be plastered everywhere. That would defeat the purpose of a solo book dedicated to her. I'm saying sales would've been significantly better if connections and history tied to him got some play on the solo. Doesn't even have to be Magneto directly. Just things tied to history with him, e.g. having been part of the Brotherhood, Lorna as her sister, etc. Even the possibility is enough. I read the Magneto solo solely because I hoped Lorna would get used there. I wouldn't have read any of it if Marvel suggested there was no chance of Lorna showing up.

That said, I'm a lot more strict about what I'll read now because of how poorly Marvel's treated Lorna these past few years.

Gonna try looking at this from another POV. In a hypothetical Polaris solo, I wouldn't want Havok anywhere near Polaris. Too toxic. Writers don't understand who Lorna is without him. Doesn't mean that the connections she made through him - X-Factor, Starjammers - should be avoided. It would only be a problem if Marvel acted stupid and did things like have the characters talk incessantly about how great/awful Havok is instead of letting his part in the linkage drift to the background. Or use only those aspects and never non-Havok things like Genosha. Part of what made the scenes between Crystal, Luna and Lorna in space so great was that even though their connection was Pietro, they didn't have to make every conversation exclusively about him.

You want people to see Wanda for Wanda, not just "Magneto's daughter." I understand, respect and agree with that. But if handled right, that connection can be used to move people toward seeing the things about Wanda that you want them to see.

You think her got tarnished due to the poor post-disaster actions, but I don't want this disaster to happen in the first place. Tarnished or not, she paid enough with her absence and the rage of fanbase.

Absence, I see as a fair move for a short time after a character's been THE focal character for an event. I'd say the same if it was Lorna in Wanda's place. Rage of the fanbase, again, I see as Marvel failing to do right by Wanda in handling of things post-HoM. They should've tried to encourage a more sympathetic view of Wanda's POV and plight. Instead they tried to say essentially "a wizard did it" and absolve her completely. That rings hollow to readers. When you have a deep emotional investment in an outcome, you need something equally deep and cathartic to resolve those feelings. Marvel never gave that. They just kept throwing out what felt like cheap excuses. They addressed the superficial elements, not the core.

And yeah, I am just so selfish to wish Wanda can just leave behind the crap that dragged her back for years and no one really solved?
And what you said is reasonable and all, but again, what Wanda get out of this connection anyway?

Why should Wanda really has an insight with an event that makes her nothing more than the combination of some lame tropes? I don't think they can do it without making it sound ridiculous.
They have years to do that, do you honestly think they cared enough for any of them to do this, put actual thought into it instead of inputting bunch of personal and biased stuff?

You're not selfish for wanting her to leave HoM behind, but 1) Marvel hasn't done what's needed for a lot of people to do that, and 2) HoM could be reworked into a net positive.

Another POV shift. I loathe how Lorna was treated by Claremont with Malice and Zaladane. That was horrendous writing toward her. BUT, I want those parts of her history used. I want to know how Lorna felt about the possession, how people see her as a result of it, how Malice could exploit the way people see Lorna. I think Zaladane would be a great archenemy for Lorna, akin to Sabretooth for Wolverine and Kimura for X-23. It all comes down to reworking past poor treatment into something that's actually good.

In those Claremont depictions of Lorna, she was a punching bag, a vessel (literally!) for hatred and abuse, and her character got absolutely savaged for characters Claremont had more respect for. She's still suffering from its impact today; otherwise Lorna would be leading Prisoner X (while Bishop led something else) and she'd most likely have a solo right now. But what Claremont did to her 30 years ago is not what a good writer that actually cares about doing right by her could do with that history today.

[MichelleDiMera]

I would argue Magneto connection didn't really make them "mainstream".
If you are applying this "you owe this much to me" logic, then I will simply play the "cut the ties and let's see" mentality.

And somehow House of M is something good for them to be in? Ledendary for butchering the characters for years to come? Stories that basically use them as glorified plot devices? I can really live without any of them. Seriously.
If that's what you are hoping for, then I am against rebuilding the ties.
And also WATXM kinda prevented them from appearing in EMH, Wanda was denied her true home.

Argue how? No one would know who Wanda or Pietro was without Magneto. They wouldnt be in those movies or those animated shows..they wouldnt even have the level of appearances they have if not for the Magneto deal.

And they did "cut the ties"..what happened? Wanda had a solo that didnt last and now is nowhere to be found except in flashbacks.

The House of M at its core was mutants winning under the royal guidance of Magneto. Once that was stopped, everything went to hell for Wanda and mutants. She lost her kids, teammates. All of that.

EMH wasnt as good as the story in Genosha anyway...Iron Man and his squeaky voice was very irritating.

[MichelleDiMera]

And who wrote House of M? Was it not Bendis?
Or you are just using House of M as a stand-in for the family?(If so, yeah, they should go for something more pleasant to the ears.)

Yeah, being tied to a character much more famous than you means two things, you probably would get more recognition but also, you end up serving his/her narrative.
At this point? It's already an unfair trade IMO. And it's also unfair among the fans with this who makes who great mentality.

Speaking of greed, if Wanda is enough to make the editorial feel that way, then I am pretty flattered. But I don't really think anyone gives a damn.
Asking them to be fair is just an unrealistic dream. I hope everyone come out alright, and carry on like they did.

House of M was OK until the silly ending where Wanda was blaming Magneto for choosing saving mutants over raising them...something that was a botched writing job because Magneto didnt know they were blood till Luna was born. A lazy ending.

[gurkle]

Argue how? No one would know who Wanda or Pietro was without Magneto. They wouldnt be in those movies or those animated shows..they wouldnt even have the level of appearances they have if not for the Magneto deal.

That might be true, but I'll tell you the way I see it (which is not necessarily how it was of course).

Before Marvel announced that the Avengers sequel would feature the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and that the characters' movie rights were shared, Pietro and especially Wanda were being wasted in a lot of media that portrayed them only as Magneto's children or as X-Men characters. It was a terrible disappointment to some of Wanda's fans that Wolverine & the X-Men used her in a part that had almost nothing to do with her comic history, while Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was not allowed to use her at all, even in the many Avengers stories she originally appeared in.

I think Joss Whedon decided he was going to use Wanda in Avengers: Age of Ultron because he was a comic reader of an older generation who, when he read the comics in the '70s, didn't think of Wanda as Magneto's daughter... because she wasn't back then. Instead he thought of her as Vision's love interest/wife and of course if the MCU Avengers were going to have Vision then they should also have the Scarlet Witch. (Pietro wasn't as important in those '70s stories, which is probably why he didn't last in the MCU.)

So the way I see it, the Magneto retcon made it difficult to get a comic-accurate Wanda represented in other media and she didn't get a better representation until the MCU created a version who had nothing to do with Magneto at all. So I'm glad the MCU said, to heck with it, Magneto isn't that important.

None of this means she should have been retconned out of being Magneto's daughter in the comics, just that she isn't (to me) an effective character when so much of her life revolves around being Magneto's daughter, as it did in House of M and the X-Men cartoons, which don't have much to do with Wanda for me (though I thought X-Men Evolution was a good alternative version). It should have remained the way it was in the '90s: she's sometimes mentioned as Magneto's daughter but it hardly ever comes up because it's not important.

[Lucyinthesky]

Wanda and Pietro have been Magneto´s children since the 80´s and it never has been a problem for them in relation to comics until House of M I guess. I understand gurkle pov about them having less to do after that crossover but my guess is that some Wanda and Pietro fans are pointing the blame in the wrong direction, Bendis wanted to rebuild the Avengers around street level heroes like Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Wolverine, etc and he used Wanda in Avengers Dissasembled and Pietro in House of M as sacrificial lambs to do it, he probably would have done it anyway with or without Magneto as the twins father or he could have chosen other characters for that and maybe quietly take Wanda and Pietro off the board and I understand how that would have been the better option for some fans.


But as a Magneto fan I have no problem with them being related or not being related, I would just like a good story told between them and Lorna too and if marvel really wants to do it then it´s welcome, I just didn´t like the clumsy way they got separated, with the obvious influence of the characters rights spat between Fox and Disney but after 4 years I am ready to accept any outcome as long as it´s a well written story, I do think it´s neccesary to explain this properly so all characters can move on from the Axis crossover imo.

[salarta]

One of Marvel's biggest problems that I've seen so far has been insincerity and forcing things to cater to their own nostalgia/fanboyism. The same holds true with treatment of the Magnus family. One editor tries to say Lorna can't be Magneto's daughter cause <insert BS reason> and then uses his power to exclude her from everything in the family til the twins' retcon. Another writer tries to pass the cause of House of M onto other characters. Even outside the Magnus family, we get Peter Parker suddenly no longer married cause some guy wants him to revert back to a bachelor.

They don't seem to really care about progress, or having good stories told. They seem to just want things to match their desires by the easiest and laziest ways available. Unfortunately, that has consequences where the characters are robbed of real development and end up looking much worse than they should.

[MichelleDiMera]

That might be true, but I'll tell you the way I see it (which is not necessarily how it was of course).

Before Marvel announced that the Avengers sequel would feature the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and that the characters' movie rights were shared, Pietro and especially Wanda were being wasted in a lot of media that portrayed them only as Magneto's children or as X-Men characters. It was a terrible disappointment to some of Wanda's fans that Wolverine & the X-Men used her in a part that had almost nothing to do with her comic history, while Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was not allowed to use her at all, even in the many Avengers stories she originally appeared in.

I think Joss Whedon decided he was going to use Wanda in Avengers: Age of Ultron because he was a comic reader of an older generation who, when he read the comics in the '70s, didn't think of Wanda as Magneto's daughter... because she wasn't back then. Instead he thought of her as Vision's love interest/wife and of course if the MCU Avengers were going to have Vision then they should also have the Scarlet Witch. (Pietro wasn't as important in those '70s stories, which is probably why he didn't last in the MCU.)

So the way I see it, the Magneto retcon made it difficult to get a comic-accurate Wanda represented in other media and she didn't get a better representation until the MCU created a version who had nothing to do with Magneto at all. So I'm glad the MCU said, to heck with it, Magneto isn't that important.

None of this means she should have been retconned out of being Magneto's daughter in the comics, just that she isn't (to me) an effective character when so much of her life revolves around being Magneto's daughter, as it did in House of M and the X-Men cartoons, which don't have much to do with Wanda for me (though I thought X-Men Evolution was a good alternative version). It should have remained the way it was in the '90s: she's sometimes mentioned as Magneto's daughter but it hardly ever comes up because it's not important.

That dont make no sense. Let's say she was in the Avengers show..she would not have been pushed on the Avengers show. Been nowhere near as highlighted as the X men show. It's like you wanna settle for her being C list. Cap, Irin Man, Black Panther were gonna matter but Wanda would of been pushed way down the rankings.

Whedon and everyone wanted to use a huge draw like Magneto..lol. That goes without saying...they had to fiddle their thumbs and create ridiculous reasoning to explain Wanda's powers in the movies.

Where was Wanda in those non Magneto stories in the 90s? She didnt matter. Exodus had a bigger effect and he was created in 92. That's crazy.

[gurkle]

That dont make no sense. Let's say she was in the Avengers show..she would not have been pushed on the Avengers show. Been nowhere near as highlighted as the X men show. It's like you wanna settle for her being C list. Cap, Irin Man, Black Panther were gonna matter but Wanda would of been pushed way down the rankings.

I mean... she will never be A-list. Neither will a lot of anyone's favorite team characters. If they ever made the A list they'd have to change so much that it wouldn't be worth it.

The version of Wanda and Pietro in Wolverine & the X-Men just didn't have much to do with Wanda and Pietro, for me, because what makes the characters who they are is that they left the Brotherhood and joined the Avengers. It was a shame (for me) to see Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes adapt all those Avengers stories Wanda was in and she was stuck in a show that had so little to do with her pre-House of M history.

Where was Wanda in those non Magneto stories in the 90s? She didnt matter. Exodus had a bigger effect and he was created in 92. That's crazy.

During this period Wanda was a major character in West Coast Avengers and probably the most important character in Force Works, then she went back to the Avengers, then she was with the Avengers in Heroes Reborn and then when they relaunched the Avengers book she was on the team and stayed there nonstop until Avengers Disassembled.

So she was mostly doing great in this period. Of course people who didn't like the Avengers comics (and why should they?) would mostly not have read about her, but nobody has to read everything; she was where she belonged, in the Avengers comics.

[MaximoffTrash]

I'd like to highlight All-New X-Factor #14 again.

It was the second issue in a double shipping month. Marvel did absolutely nothing to promote it. In fact, the company basically sabotaged it by withholding the cover until Friday before release. And yet, unlike the typical trend of sales going down for second issues of double shipping months, sales actually rose by a couple hundred. Why? Because people wanted to read the sisters spending time together.

The same applies to the problem faced by the Wanda solo. People like tangible connections that can lead to deeper drama.

I'm not saying her solo needed Magneto to be plastered everywhere. That would defeat the purpose of a solo book dedicated to her. I'm saying sales would've been significantly better if connections and history tied to him got some play on the solo. Doesn't even have to be Magneto directly. Just things tied to history with him, e.g. having been part of the Brotherhood, Lorna as her sister, etc. Even the possibility is enough. I read the Magneto solo solely because I hoped Lorna would get used there. I wouldn't have read any of it if Marvel suggested there was no chance of Lorna showing up.

That said, I'm a lot more strict about what I'll read now because of how poorly Marvel's treated Lorna these past few years.

Gonna try looking at this from another POV. In a hypothetical Polaris solo, I wouldn't want Havok anywhere near Polaris. Too toxic. Writers don't understand who Lorna is without him. Doesn't mean that the connections she made through him - X-Factor, Starjammers - should be avoided. It would only be a problem if Marvel acted stupid and did things like have the characters talk incessantly about how great/awful Havok is instead of letting his part in the linkage drift to the background. Or use only those aspects and never non-Havok things like Genosha. Part of what made the scenes between Crystal, Luna and Lorna in space so great was that even though their connection was Pietro, they didn't have to make every conversation exclusively about him.

You want people to see Wanda for Wanda, not just "Magneto's daughter." I understand, respect and agree with that. But if handled right, that connection can be used to move people toward seeing the things about Wanda that you want them to see.



Absence, I see as a fair move for a short time after a character's been THE focal character for an event. I'd say the same if it was Lorna in Wanda's place. Rage of the fanbase, again, I see as Marvel failing to do right by Wanda in handling of things post-HoM. They should've tried to encourage a more sympathetic view of Wanda's POV and plight. Instead they tried to say essentially "a wizard did it" and absolve her completely. That rings hollow to readers. When you have a deep emotional investment in an outcome, you need something equally deep and cathartic to resolve those feelings. Marvel never gave that. They just kept throwing out what felt like cheap excuses. They addressed the superficial elements, not the core.



You're not selfish for wanting her to leave HoM behind, but 1) Marvel hasn't done what's needed for a lot of people to do that, and 2) HoM could be reworked into a net positive.

Another POV shift. I loathe how Lorna was treated by Claremont with Malice and Zaladane. That was horrendous writing toward her. BUT, I want those parts of her history used. I want to know how Lorna felt about the possession, how people see her as a result of it, how Malice could exploit the way people see Lorna. I think Zaladane would be a great archenemy for Lorna, akin to Sabretooth for Wolverine and Kimura for X-23. It all comes down to reworking past poor treatment into something that's actually good.

In those Claremont depictions of Lorna, she was a punching bag, a vessel (literally!) for hatred and abuse, and her character got absolutely savaged for characters Claremont had more respect for. She's still suffering from its impact today; otherwise Lorna would be leading Prisoner X (while Bishop led something else) and she'd most likely have a solo right now. But what Claremont did to her 30 years ago is not what a good writer that actually cares about doing right by her could do with that history today.

Focal point of an event where she is basically a background furniture and less pages than Wolverine.
Wait, I don't see Wolverine getting shoven to the limbo for 7 years.
This IMO is an unfair trade, I would rather she stay with the bland Avengers tean being the so-called focus of such grand family drama.

[MaximoffTrash]

House of M was OK until the silly ending where Wanda was blaming Magneto for choosing saving mutants over raising them...something that was a botched writing job because Magneto didnt know they were blood till Luna was born. A lazy ending.

HoM was rotten from the start when Wanda somehow became daddy's girl and willing to give Magneto what he wants.

[MaximoffTrash]

That might be true, but I'll tell you the way I see it (which is not necessarily how it was of course).

Before Marvel announced that the Avengers sequel would feature the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver and that the characters' movie rights were shared, Pietro and especially Wanda were being wasted in a lot of media that portrayed them only as Magneto's children or as X-Men characters. It was a terrible disappointment to some of Wanda's fans that Wolverine & the X-Men used her in a part that had almost nothing to do with her comic history, while Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was not allowed to use her at all, even in the many Avengers stories she originally appeared in.

I think Joss Whedon decided he was going to use Wanda in Avengers: Age of Ultron because he was a comic reader of an older generation who, when he read the comics in the '70s, didn't think of Wanda as Magneto's daughter... because she wasn't back then. Instead he thought of her as Vision's love interest/wife and of course if the MCU Avengers were going to have Vision then they should also have the Scarlet Witch. (Pietro wasn't as important in those '70s stories, which is probably why he didn't last in the MCU.)

So the way I see it, the Magneto retcon made it difficult to get a comic-accurate Wanda represented in other media and she didn't get a better representation until the MCU created a version who had nothing to do with Magneto at all. So I'm glad the MCU said, to heck with it, Magneto isn't that important.

None of this means she should have been retconned out of being Magneto's daughter in the comics, just that she isn't (to me) an effective character when so much of her life revolves around being Magneto's daughter, as it did in House of M and the X-Men cartoons, which don't have much to do with Wanda for me (though I thought X-Men Evolution was a good alternative version). It should have remained the way it was in the '90s: she's sometimes mentioned as Magneto's daughter but it hardly ever comes up because it's not important.

That's the syndrome when Magneto as a character being more famous and important than the actual relationship between him and his kids.
The family ties got overplayed and rob someone of his/her own place and narrative.

[MaximoffTrash]

Wanda and Pietro have been Magneto´s children since the 80´s and it never has been a problem for them in relation to comics until House of M I guess. I understand gurkle pov about them having less to do after that crossover but my guess is that some Wanda and Pietro fans are pointing the blame in the wrong direction, Bendis wanted to rebuild the Avengers around street level heroes like Luke Cage, Spider-Man, Wolverine, etc and he used Wanda in Avengers Dissasembled and Pietro in House of M as sacrificial lambs to do it, he probably would have done it anyway with or without Magneto as the twins father or he could have chosen other characters for that and maybe quietly take Wanda and Pietro off the board and I understand how that would have been the better option for some fans.


But as a Magneto fan I have no problem with them being related or not being related, I would just like a good story told between them and Lorna too and if marvel really wants to do it then it´s welcome, I just didn´t like the clumsy way they got separated, with the obvious influence of the characters rights spat between Fox and Disney but after 4 years I am ready to accept any outcome as long as it´s a well written story, I do think it´s neccesary to explain this properly so all characters can move on from the Axis crossover imo.

It's not really about shifting the blame, my point being with or without HoM, Magento is not that,important, so Pre or Post-HoM, it should not be a big deal.
The problem came when someone somehow play on the HoM concept, and using it as the exmaple of them being a great family is just beyond me.
Hey they had a famous story that got everyone screwed, they should be together and had even more of that crap!

This relationship invite writers with ill will, was it the fault of certain characters? Nope, but I would want to avoid any danger. Especially when the price is not that high.

And with those they are only relevant because ...... oh please just let them die and fade away and no longer the parasite of a certain character. Everyone would be bappy right?

[MaximoffTrash]

That dont make no sense. Let's say she was in the Avengers show..she would not have been pushed on the Avengers show. Been nowhere near as highlighted as the X men show. It's like you wanna settle for her being C list. Cap, Irin Man, Black Panther were gonna matter but Wanda would of been pushed way down the rankings.

Whedon and everyone wanted to use a huge draw like Magneto..lol. That goes without saying...they had to fiddle their thumbs and create ridiculous reasoning to explain Wanda's powers in the movies.

Where was Wanda in those non Magneto stories in the 90s? She didnt matter. Exodus had a bigger effect and he was created in 92. That's crazy.

A C-lister true to herself is better than so-called A-lister warped and twisted beyond recognition.

[MaximoffTrash]

That dont make no sense. Let's say she was in the Avengers show..she would not have been pushed on the Avengers show. Been nowhere near as highlighted as the X men show. It's like you wanna settle for her being C list. Cap, Irin Man, Black Panther were gonna matter but Wanda would of been pushed way down the rankings.

Whedon and everyone wanted to use a huge draw like Magneto..lol. That goes without saying...they had to fiddle their thumbs and create ridiculous reasoning to explain Wanda's powers in the movies.

Where was Wanda in those non Magneto stories in the 90s? She didnt matter. Exodus had a bigger effect and he was created in 92. That's crazy.

Of course you ignored all the Avengers related issues she appeared in because Magneto is the only part that matters.

[Lucyinthesky]

They don't seem to really care about progress, or having good stories told. They seem to just want things to match their desires by the easiest and laziest ways available. Unfortunately, that has consequences where the characters are robbed of real development and end up looking much worse than they should.

Indeed, this kind of forced changes can really affect the characters. This is exactly the reason why I can´t stand Morrison´s take on Magneto.

This relationship invite writers with ill will, was it the fault of certain characters? Nope, but I would want to avoid any danger. Especially when the price is not that high. And with those they are only relevant because ...... oh please just let them die and fade away and no longer the parasite of a certain character. Everyone would be bappy right?

I don´t know if the relationship itself calls for writers with ill will imo it depends on the writer not the characters, if a writer has a good idea, it will show if the writer just wants to destroy it will also be obvious.

I personally enjoy the relationships inside the family for the opportunities for story and character development, but I agree that if this relationship doesn´t serve the characters to develop and grow anymore then yes it´s not that important indeed.

My point just about the need for marvel to close the story that was purposelly left open in Uncanny Avengers and Wanda´s series, with the hope that it serves the story of all characters involved.