Magnus Family Appreciation 2019

[Heroine Addict]

From Marvelous X-men. Magneto still views the twins as his kids. Sure its an alternate universe but I like how it was handled

Hmm... so a slightly altered, AoXM memory of this:

... then.

Wolverine & the X-Men's portrayal of Wanda, Pietro, and even Lorna, made me like them A LOT more. It made me a stan of the Magnus fam, for LIFE!!!!

[MichelleDiMera]

I mean... she will never be A-list. Neither will a lot of anyone's favorite team characters. If they ever made the A list they'd have to change so much that it wouldn't be worth it.

The version of Wanda and Pietro in Wolverine & the X-Men just didn't have much to do with Wanda and Pietro, for me, because what makes the characters who they are is that they left the Brotherhood and joined the Avengers. It was a shame (for me) to see Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes adapt all those Avengers stories Wanda was in and she was stuck in a show that had so little to do with her pre-House of M history.



During this period Wanda was a major character in West Coast Avengers and probably the most important character in Force Works, then she went back to the Avengers, then she was with the Avengers in Heroes Reborn and then when they relaunched the Avengers book she was on the team and stayed there nonstop until Avengers Disassembled.

So she was mostly doing great in this period. Of course people who didn't like the Avengers comics (and why should they?) would mostly not have read about her, but nobody has to read everything; she was where she belonged, in the Avengers comics.

But who was really reading Westcoast Avengers compared to the legendary Fatal Atttractions storyline. It's not even comparable. Westcoast Avengers may have been the best run of all time but who would know?? Im not saying it to bash that book...I love westcoast theme books because it's a utter 180 from the usual NY lovefest that has a endless trope of heroes.

The Avengers were alright but their stories were lacking in the 90s and in the 2000s. They werent legendary or memorable. If anything was taken from Heroes Reborn, it was Jim Lee drawing Doom in Fantastic Four. Everyone was excited about that.

[MichelleDiMera]

That's the syndrome when Magneto as a character being more famous and important than the actual relationship between him and his kids.
The family ties got overplayed and rob someone of his/her own place and narrative.

No. That's just lazy writing that didnt get the best out of the connections. Everyone defends the Wanda/Vision stuff but it was the Magneto stigma that was always a crutch for Wanda to complain about..to blame...to be off the hook for every miscellaneous choice. Where Rogue can see the nature of Magneto's convictions, Wanda never could until he became Joseph and wasnt anywhere near the defiant, rebellious defender of mutantkind he was meant to be. That's someone who wants it easy instead of dealing with reality.

That's another thing with Wanda..she's not like Lorna..she's not into the fight for mutant rights. Shes been on easy street for a long time.

[MichelleDiMera]

HoM was rotten from the start when Wanda somehow became daddy's girl and willing to give Magneto what he wants.

Dont forget that Pietro was the villain and wanted them to hide in a Magneto led world where he would be targeted while they could hide and play the victimized heroes.

[salarta]

No. That's just lazy writing that didnt get the best out of the connections. Everyone defends the Wanda/Vision stuff but it was the Magneto stigma that was always a crutch for Wanda to complain about..to blame...to be off the hook for every miscellaneous choice. Where Rogue can see the nature of Magneto's convictions, Wanda never could until he became Joseph and wasnt anywhere near the defiant, rebellious defender of mutantkind he was meant to be. That's someone who wants it easy instead of dealing with reality.

That's another thing with Wanda..she's not like Lorna..she's not into the fight for mutant rights. Shes been on easy street for a long time.

If I'm being completely honest, Lorna's fight for mutant rights is a relatively recent development. She's been almost exclusively on X-Men books, teams and storylines, but being a character in the franchise differs from being one that's part of the fight.

BUT, the catalyst for her becoming more involved is huge. Genosha was her Holocaust, and it was specific to mutants.

Beyond that...

I'm a big fan of Lorna, and I'm a fan of what's possible between her and Wanda, but I can't say I'm a fan of Wanda because I don't pore over news about Wanda or buy stuff cause she's in it. Maybe I would've become one, if Marvel didn't constantly sabotage Lorna connecting with anyone and everyone that isn't Havok. But I can't say I'm a fan of her - which in turn means I don't know what's best or what counts as accurate characterization for her.

I feel like there's something about Wanda and her situation and nature that isn't coming out in any of these CBR posts. And getting that missing piece is important to really understanding where things fit with her.

[Lucyinthesky]

I am not a fan of Wanda either but I have read some of her storylines, they are interesting if you like magical or supernatural stories but she hardly identifies herself as a mutant or the mutants cause the way Pietro did when he was part of X-factor, she is an Avengers character before anything else and Magneto is/was her main link to the X-men so because of it I can understand how her fans got annoyed because she was made a villain for the X-men after HoM for something she did in an OC moment and was send to limbo for 6 or 7 years, If I were in their place I would be pissed off too.

But I don´t agree when some of them think this was done because Magneto was their father, that may have been marvel excuse for HoM but the main reason imo was that marvel wanted less mutants because they stopped being a minority and Bendis wanted to rebuild the Avengers using not classical characters except Captain American and Iron Man.

I believe that there are some interesting tales that still can be told with the entire family, In concept this family unites almost every corner of the marvel universe, the Avengers, the X-men, the Inhumans, the young avengers and each character has interesting thoughts and motivations of their own If marvel in fact is planning a new story to undo the retcon I would like for them to do something different by actually using all the potential of the family imo.

[Coatl]

I used to be fan of Wanda, of the twins to be more precise. I loved Pietro and Wanda as family; brother and sister; and team. Because I love histories where family plays an important part. Magneto and Lorna was like adding more ingredients to a good food, they had a good dynamic as duo but an extended family turn them in a richer and more complex team. And even after House of M I rotted for the twins. Yes, Wanda tantrum blaming Magneto for her troubles even when he didn't raised them and they were a full grown up adults by then, sounded childist but I had faith that she would realize that sooner or latter. So I was still wanting to see their return to the action after that.

And I have to say that I get pretty satisfied with Pietro, he was a jerk, but he had to admit that what he did was wrong, his pride took a full blown, he had to apologize, and understand that some people won't accepted his apologize because he hurted them deeply, he tried to fix his mistake and even when he made a MESS you can see that he was just too worried and near crazy from guilt and impotence. He did something who affected so much people and he was desperate to fix it, at point that he wasn't thinking straight. At the end, for his mistakes he paid dearly, loses his powers, his friends, his marriage and even his family, but he keeps trying. And when he tries to take a shortcut and make an excuse inventing that "all was done by a skrull" he gets chewed by daughter herself, so at the end he just accept his guilt (on public conference no less) and is in that moment when he was expecting that someone just came to kill him for his wrongdoings, that he earns the love and forgiveness of his daughter for being brave enough to accept his mistakes and consequences and still kept forward, I loved that moment, and I think that was a beautiful message.

Wanda other side, she just played the card of victim, she blames everyone but herself from the problem (Magneto, Pietro, Doom, the Avenger), she gets angry or condescendent when someone talks about the topic and gets offended if she apologizes and someone doesn't take it because she "doesn't deserve it". When she shifts the blame on Doom she gets to go free, she faces no consequences, their "sons" supports her attitude, everybody hides her mistake so her public reputation doesn't get tarnished and she had no need to learn nothing. The worst part is that the writers seems to agree with her, and portray those who are angry at her for her selfishness and irresponsible use of her powers (and well, genocide attempt) as nasty complainers who can't get over it. And for that reason, even when I wanted to like her again, I just couldn't.

I know that at the end was bad writing, but is was so bad, that the jerkish nearly psychotic brother was portrayed as a much more repent, apologetic and responsible that the supposed responsable, caring and tender sister, and that's a problem.

[Lucyinthesky]

Agreed, there´s kind of imbalance on the relationship between Wanda and Pietro where she´s seen as the "good twin" and Pietro as the "evil, selfish twin" and their personalities actually help to have this perception, while Wanda can get along with people easily, Pietro is rash, impatient and sometimes sarcastic. So when something like HoM happens is easier to blame one and see the other as just a victim of circumstance. Pietro was sometimes a kind of villain in Wanda´s story in relation to Vision so my guess is that writers that grew up with that perspective( Ex. Whedon in the MCU) are used to write Pietro that way as if he didn´t change at all since that time when he´s around Wanda

OTOH I think Remender was planning on tackling that point about Wanda and her own flaws in relation to the mutant issue on Uncanny Avengers. In there Wanda certainly had support from friends but also got criticism by the other characters, it could have lead to her becoming more aware about the consequences of her actions but then the retcon happened and she and Pietro ended looking for their parents with the High Evolutionary.

Later on in Wanda series Pietro is made responsible being too controlling of Wanda or just using her because of her powers, it would be interesting if a writer made a story addresing those issues between the twins imo.

[jmc247]

That reminds me Lorna was treated as a non-entity in Axis, Wanda even tells him you have no children there which is par for the course. To this day we don’t even know if Lorna actually even knows about the events in Axis.

[gurkle]

Pietro reached his lowest point in Son of M but then Peter David (X-Factor), Dan Slott (Mighty Avengers) and Chris Gage (Avengers Academy) did the work of rehabilitating him.

Probably any or all of these writers would have done the same with Wanda if she'd been available to them, but she wasn't. Instead she was off the board until the "Children's Crusade" story could happen, and that story took so long to appear that by the time it ended, it was time for Avengers vs. X-Men and Wanda went right into that, with what should have been big moments happening mostly off-panel or not at all.

She could have been handled better by Remender, but the real problem is keeping her out of the comics for such a long time that Pietro had time to be in three different ongoings, a limited series and a one-shot special all about him becoming a hero again. There's just no substitute for actually being in the comics.

[MaximoffTrash]

No. That's just lazy writing that didnt get the best out of the connections. Everyone defends the Wanda/Vision stuff but it was the Magneto stigma that was always a crutch for Wanda to complain about..to blame...to be off the hook for every miscellaneous choice. Where Rogue can see the nature of Magneto's convictions, Wanda never could until he became Joseph and wasnt anywhere near the defiant, rebellious defender of mutantkind he was meant to be. That's someone who wants it easy instead of dealing with reality.

That's another thing with Wanda..she's not like Lorna..she's not into the fight for mutant rights. Shes been on easy street for a long time.

You can blame it on lazy writing but this set of imbalance invite such lazy writing by fault.
Again, what's the Wanda/Vision stuff to defend anyway? Sure they got screwed multiple times, but they are mostly equals.

She is not into fight for mutant rights because that's not her priority as none-X-Men character, why do an outsider like her need to meet certain requirement for someone's liking?
Why should she serve the mutant narrative anyway, why is it considered dealing with reality?
She never could because Magneto is not her chosen family and his ideal is not her chosen ideal either, again, this mentality is another reason why I don't care for it, she has her own path, a path that is not obliged to suits someone's particular taste.

And again, why I keep finding this whole mentality smell of mutant superiority (from a fan?), "if you do not serve our narrative or cause, you are not worthy."? Our stories are more famous and "legendary", so your more regular appearance and home means nothing?
If they are family again only to be viewed this way, then screw all of it.

[MaximoffTrash]

Indeed, this kind of forced changes can really affect the characters. This is exactly the reason why I can´t stand Morrison´s take on Magneto.



I don´t know if the relationship itself calls for writers with ill will imo it depends on the writer not the characters, if a writer has a good idea, it will show if the writer just wants to destroy it will also be obvious.

I personally enjoy the relationships inside the family for the opportunities for story and character development, but I agree that if this relationship doesn´t serve the characters to develop and grow anymore then yes it´s not that important indeed.

My point just about the need for marvel to close the story that was purposelly left open in Uncanny Avengers and Wanda´s series, with the hope that it serves the story of all characters involved.

It's not realistic to expect a "fair trade",if a writer did questionable stuff or simply don't care about them enough, that's the reality I have to accept.
But as for attitudes of fans? At least show the respect for independent characters, especially when their base of comic publishing is rather separated and not connected as someone might want to believe.
Again thanks for understanding and all.

[jmc247]

HoM Cosplay

[Coatl]

Pietro reached his lowest point in Son of M but then Peter David (X-Factor), Dan Slott (Mighty Avengers) and Chris Gage (Avengers Academy) did the work of rehabilitating him.

Probably any or all of these writers would have done the same with Wanda if she'd been available to them, but she wasn't. Instead she was off the board until the "Children's Crusade" story could happen, and that story took so long to appear that by the time it ended, it was time for Avengers vs. X-Men and Wanda went right into that, with what should have been big moments happening mostly off-panel or not at all

I think that in X-Factor Pietro was pretty much considered a villain, but my main point is the "message" that those comics left me, in Pietro case was about accepting his responsibilities, don't taking shortcuts, accepting that sometimes just apologizing isn't enough, that no matter how much harm you have done you should always kept trying. He understood that he had screwed big time and he can't just expect quick forgiveness but he had to kept trying to be a better person and learn for those mistakes. Without the support of family and friends (who were undertably upset and took distances) he had to make a bit of autocratic and even when he could have used the quick exit of blaming the Skrulls at the end he takes full responsibility and does not expect forgiveness but accept that he has to earn again the trust he lost. I found it as a nice lesson about falling (and falling and falling) and kept trying.

Wanda was quite the opposite, she got a quick exit blaming Doom, Pietro and Magneto, his sons and friends support her attitude and her reputation was never tarnished. I personally found "Children crusade" very disappointing because it shows that Wanda has been shielded about the consequences of her actions and those who are angry are portrayed as whiny complainers. The fact that other representations of her like AvX, Uncanny Avengers and X-force and all new X-men shows her annoyed (more than remorseful) when someone takes the matter in consideration, just reinforcement that point, and she kidnapping all the mutants in the world (Uncanny) and being the key factor to Axis shows that she really never learned anything because she never had to.

Just a single one shot similar to "The quick and the death" showing her doing some introspection and trying to avoid more mistakes (and even accepting her own fault in previous ones instead of blaming others) could have done the character lot more sympathetic.

So it's not that much about how many comics she has been in (since by this point she has been in far more than Pietro and even had her own run) but more about how the writers had handled her. The amount of guilt and consequences both brother shared, seems pretty unbalanced, when Pietro is still building some trust and regarded as a psycho (even for Wanda herself) but Wanda is supposed to be the all loving hero who was the victim of the situation and keeps being molested for rude complainers.

[salarta]

There's one element to Wanda's situation with HoM that I wasn't thinking about til the Pietro talk.

Let's start from a premise that the events of House of M weren't really Wanda's fault, but someone else. Let's say that explanation feels like it could be plausible and accepted. That still leaves the perception that she's responsible. I don't mean by readers, I mean among characters in the comics themselves.

Back to Lorna, one of the big missed opportunities I saw was the anti-Apocalypse cult that was trying to kill her because she had been Pestilence. Where it was introduced, it was just an excuse to force her back into Havok's arms and into space. But if Marvel gave a damn, that idea opened the door to so much more. And within that so much more, we would've seen how people perceive her as evil despite the fact it genuinely wasn't her fault. She was tortured and mind-controlled. On a slightly similar note, I've been watching The Blacklist. In season 3, Elizabeth Keen is framed for major crimes. They're not her fault. She was even trying to stop those crimes. Even when she's exonerated, people still believe she's to blame or the notoriety could hurt them by extension, and we see the effects of that repeatedly.

Wanda post-HoM doesn't really have that as far as I've seen. Some characters blame her but the framing of it that I've seen seems to come off like the people blaming her are evil or being unreasonable, rather than really looking at it from the POV of those who thought she was to blame.

And I have to go, but quick idea: this could also be used as a reason for Wanda to be more involved and proactive in X-Men content. HoM happened. Even if we say she's not to blame, the direct experience she has from it could be justification for her feeling like she needs to be more involved.