Magnus Family Appreciation 2019

[juan678]

[Rivka]

Saw this article.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/marv...o-disney-show/

I'm not happy about this at all. For Disney Plus? The kiddie channel? Keeping him a Jewish Holocaust survivor is of paramount importance--as we've discussed in other threads. Erasing his Jewish identity, his Holocaust history, is not acceptable. They'd better not say that teaching about the Shoah and the horrors of what the Nazis did in WWII is "not for children." I can see so many opportunities for Disney to be offensive with this. I've used MAGNETO TESTAMENT as a teaching tool about the Holocaust in Sunday School class. I've read articles about how teachers have used MAGNETO TESTAMENT as a means to teach in public schools and libraries.

Can Disney and Marvel Studios do this without erasing a Jewish character, without erasing the Holocaust from the MCU? Disney has been so clumsy with race and ethnicity in the past. Has the company ever had ANY Jewish stories or main characters who were Jewish? Even though the heads of Disney Studios and Marvel Studios and the Disney CEO himself are Jewish.

We've also discussed before. Since the overwhelming majority of comic book and comic-book-movie characters, heroes, anti-heroes, villains, etc. are white and male, gender-bending or switching a white character to a minority, is fair. But taking a character who is already a minority--and specifically a survivor of the most horrible genocide in history--and changing to another minority is erasure. It is anti-Semitism. I don't know if this is what Disney is planning--and I hope no one involved with this project would be stupid enough to do such a thing--but it's something to worry about.

Sorry to be negative about this news. I just expect the worst from Disney regarding this.

[jmc247]

Saw this article.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/marv...o-disney-show/

I'm not happy about this at all. For Disney Plus? The kiddie channel? Keeping him a Jewish Holocaust survivor is of paramount importance--as we've discussed in other threads. Erasing his Jewish identity, his Holocaust history, is not acceptable. They'd better not say that teaching about the Shoah and the horrors of what the Nazis did in WWII is "not for children."

They just canceled their Disney+ Book of Enchantment's villains backstory TV series due to concerns it was 'too dark'. If things like The Beast (of Beauty and the Beast) treated like an animal is too dark then how does one deal with a Sonderkommando who was forced to help annihilate his race?

I mean a PG-11 version of Magneto's Holocaust backstory has been done before. It was in X-Men Evolution where Captain America saves Magneto from what looked more like a Heer stalag then an SS extermination camp. I would be less worried Rivka about them retconning his backstory as I don't think they will (and are looking at ways of retroactively filling in his iconic backstory) and more about how do they do justice to the story when they cancel an antagonist origins series that was pretty clearly PG-13?

Disney+ Cancels ‘Book of Enchantment’ Villains Series over Concerns It Was “Too Dark”

Disney+ has already made its first cancellation, before the streaming service has even debuted. An adaptation of the Disney Villains book series by Serena Valentino called Book of Enchantment had been in the works for nearly a year, but 13 weeks into the writers room, Disney+ has decided to scrap the series altogether.

Deadline reports that Book of Enchantment was cancelled over concerns about the show’s tone and creative direction. Valentino’s books focus on various iconic Disney villains, like Beast and Urusula and Maleficent, so this is prime real estate that Book of Enchantment was dealing with. But the adaptation faced problems when the scripts went in a darker direction than executives expected. An effort was made to shift the direction mid-stream as the writers attempted to bring some levity back into the series, with producer Jason Reed brought on to help out. But when the latest script came in this week, the executives still felt it was too dark and shut the series down.

Disney is facing a concern over branding with the launch of Disney+. While the feature film side has strict guidelines (no smoking, no R-ratings, etc.), the idea behind a streaming service is to offer a high volume of diverse content. As Disney+ readies to launch said content, it appears they’re trying to maintain their family friendly brand while also diversifying the tone of their shows.

It feels like Disney+ is destined to be something along the lines of PG-11, while Hulu will be the destination for more adult-oriented content. It’s a bummer that something like Book of Enchantment wasn’t allowed to embrace the darker themes of the Disney Villains lineup, but one can also understand how Disney would be protective of these characters. Especially at a time when so many of these characters are being reimagined on the big screen in live-action remakes, which means Disney will still need to move merchandise related to Beast, Urusula, etc. in the years to come. If a Disney+ series about these characters paints them as really troubled villains, that could knee-cap the merch ceiling on certain properties.

http://collider.com/disney-plus-canc...llains-series/

The best I could imagine is them going the boy in the striped pajamas route only with the deaths being only inferred and most of the series mainly focusing on the growing prejudice in Germany when he was a boy and only very lightly treading on the camps and with no outward references to things like his family dying by the hands of the SS Einsatzgruppen.

I really don't think they plan on retconning his backstory and instead plan on keeping it connected to WW2 and filling it in before they get to the films, but the real issue will be doing it justice on a station that doesn't seem to want content much darker or more mature then the actual TV Disney channel.

[Rivka]

They just canceled their Disney+ Book of Enchantment's villains backstory TV series due to concerns it was 'too dark'. If things like The Beast (of Beauty and the Beast) treated like an animal is too dark then how does one deal with a Sonderkommando who was forced to help annihilate his race?

I mean a PG-11 version of Magneto's Holocaust backstory has been done before. It was in X-Men Evolution where Captain America saves Magneto from what looked more like a Heer stalag then an SS extermination camp. I would be less worried Rivka about them retconning his backstory as I don't think they will (and are looking at ways of retroactively filling in his iconic backstory) and more about how do they do justice to the story when they cancel an antagonist origins series that was pretty clearly PG-13?



The best I could imagine is them going the boy in the striped pajamas route only with the deaths being only inferred and most of the series mainly focusing on the growing prejudice in Germany when he was a boy and only very lightly treading on the camps and with no outward references to things like his family dying by the hands of the SS Einsatzgruppen.

Like I said Rivka I don't think they plan on retconning his backstory and instead plan on filling it in, but the real issue will be doing it justice that doesn't seem to want content much darker or more mature then the actual TV Disney channel.

Thanks for the reply, JMC. Wow, just wow on the news about Books of Enchantment. Hasn't anyone at Disney read "The Uses of Enchantment"? Hasn't anyone read the scholarship on Fairy Tales and what they mean for children? Oh, you mean Disney, which all the scholars of children's literature have singled out for the last 80 years for scrubbing and sanitizing children's stories to the point where they are useless except for superficial entertainment? Nice of Disney to be so DAMN CONSISTENT!

What in the heck are they thinking? Magneto on Disney Plus? Hulu maybe, but not Disney Plus.

I was thinking about X-MEN EVOLUTION the last few days! How they used "the camps" and used WWII without specific references, without contradicting Magneto's history.

I was hoping that Kevin Feige, who wanted to use Magneto in the first Captain America film but FOX wouldn't let him, would do a scene of liberation of a WII death camp in an upcoming Winter Soldier or Cap film, and introduce Magneto that way. But Magneto is a complex, dark and light character with an important, brilliant back story that needs to be preserved and used to teach.

Marvel and Marvel Studios need to stand up to the Mouse about sanitizing the darker, more important and culturally significant aspects of the Marvel Universe. They also need to protect their minority characters!

[teapartyofthedead]

Considering the missteps the MCU has already done with the Magnus family, it’s a fair concern. I would love to believe that such a show could lend itself to a really good representation of Magneto and his origins as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, and that the show runners will be respectful to the material. But I would also love to believe that Trump and his cronies will be lead away in handcuffs and every detention camp emptied and torn down by morning.

It’s going to mean everyone has to stay on top of this, make our concerns heard as loudly as we can, and fight every measure that could lead to Magneto and what he represents being compromised.

[jmc247]

Hasn't anyone read the scholarship on Fairy Tales and what they mean for children? Oh, you mean Disney, which all the scholars of children's literature have singled out for the last 80 years for scrubbing and sanitizing children's stories to the point where they are useless except for superficial entertainment? Nice of Disney to be so DAMN CONSISTENT!

That they have done in spades, the original folklore and fairytales they adapted were lessons on life and human nature, not superficial entertainment. It's worked for Disney to bring in cash, but it hasn't helped society in any meaningful way in the way the old stories did. Society is in a state of low grade chaos and part of that is that the youth need guidance... fables, folklore and fairytales were one of many things that offered that.

I will say this... I firmly believe they will attempt to adapt the Holocaust backstory. Its one of the greatest backstories of any characters they currently fully own. But, I believe they are going to try to adapt it at the PG-11 level and that is unfortunate, but a lesser evil then if they decide they can't adapt it at the PG-11 level in which case then the danger comes in of them deciding on another backstory.

If The Wanda/Vision series or the Strange film doesn't bring back Quicksilver chances are he isn't coming back unless Wanda does a big reality warp later. As for Lorna her origins with her mom are too dark for Disney and were already done for Jean in Dark Phoenix. I don't see them going there. I do think Lorna as a character needs some kind of major trauma or version of Genosha's destruction to function beyond the superficial level. I have my doubts on them bringing her on right now, but clearly Emma Dumont is pushing for it and she still millions of fans.

[salarta]

I guess Disney wants to prove that the X-Men franchise should've stayed out of Disney's wheelhouse right out of the gate.

The new spat with Sony over Spider-Man took on a dimension I didn't see during the X-Men/FF stuff. I've seen people argue moreso that neither Sony nor Disney should have the rights - Spider-Man should be public domain. Which goes into Disney's long history of exploiting the public domain, then trying to lock people out of it. The whole reason public domain is so screwed up right now is because they've constantly petitioned government to keep Mickey Mouse out of public domain. But even more insidious is the fairy tales being discussed here. Disney took clearly public domain entities, but then have aspects of their versions copyrighted in such a way that it becomes harder for other companies and creatives to tell those stories too.

Particular to what's going on here, if Marvel does decide to cut out the more serious elements of what Magneto went through, it's extremely insulting. To turn one of history's greatest horrors and "clean it up" so that it's available to kids. I suspect the half-baked "logic" would be that since Magneto's a kid, the audience should be kids, and that adults wouldn't be able to relate to a kid character. Which is pure BS of course.

[Lucyinthesky]

I don´t know I don´t think the MCU would develop an origin for Magneto in disney plus when they could easily use a new Captain America movie to do a flashback of him meeting Steve or Logan like they did in X-men evolution, Kevin Feige said as much of them having those plans,along with conceptual art of Magneto fighting Iron Man.

My guess is that they want to use disney plus to develop the links between Wanda, Quicksilver, Vision the Young Avengers and Magneto, maybe even the inhumans, in that case they would just need to imply his origin before fully covering it on an X-men, Magneto or Wolverine movie. The article also says that this is in the earliest stage of development so they are not even sure if they have a story to develop, at least with a PG-13 audience.

But while returning players are all well and good, a source close to We Got This Covered has also relayed word that the Disney Plus show will serve as the MCU debut of a young superhero who could go on to do big things. Specifically, we’re told that WandaVision will introduce Scarlet Witch’s son Wiccan, and what’s more, it’s said that Wiccan’s debut will serve as one more step in the build-up to an eventual Young Avengers project.
https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/wand...as-son-wiccan/

[H-E-D]

I mean, I think you can do a proper Magneto at PG-13, and Disney+ seems to allow that. Unless all the footage for the Mandalorian has been very misleading.

I think the Books of Enchantment show is a more sensitive thing for them because of its connection to their Princess line. The standards and expectations for that vs a Marvel property are quite different.


That being said – doesn't WGTC have a pretty shoddy track record?

[MaximoffTrash]

Saw this article.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/marv...o-disney-show/

I'm not happy about this at all. For Disney Plus? The kiddie channel? Keeping him a Jewish Holocaust survivor is of paramount importance--as we've discussed in other threads. Erasing his Jewish identity, his Holocaust history, is not acceptable. They'd better not say that teaching about the Shoah and the horrors of what the Nazis did in WWII is "not for children." I can see so many opportunities for Disney to be offensive with this. I've used MAGNETO TESTAMENT as a teaching tool about the Holocaust in Sunday School class. I've read articles about how teachers have used MAGNETO TESTAMENT as a means to teach in public schools and libraries.

Can Disney and Marvel Studios do this without erasing a Jewish character, without erasing the Holocaust from the MCU? Disney has been so clumsy with race and ethnicity in the past. Has the company ever had ANY Jewish stories or main characters who were Jewish? Even though the heads of Disney Studios and Marvel Studios and the Disney CEO himself are Jewish.

We've also discussed before. Since the overwhelming majority of comic book and comic-book-movie characters, heroes, anti-heroes, villains, etc. are white and male, gender-bending or switching a white character to a minority, is fair. But taking a character who is already a minority--and specifically a survivor of the most horrible genocide in history--and changing to another minority is erasure. It is anti-Semitism. I don't know if this is what Disney is planning--and I hope no one involved with this project would be stupid enough to do such a thing--but it's something to worry about.

Sorry to be negative about this news. I just expect the worst from Disney regarding this.

It's a WGTC article so it probably won't happen anyway.

Also D＋ allows PG-13, and they usually have a bigger budget and longer production cycle close to movies.

[MaximoffTrash]

Considering the missteps the MCU has already done with the Magnus family, it’s a fair concern. I would love to believe that such a show could lend itself to a really good representation of Magneto and his origins as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, and that the show runners will be respectful to the material. But I would also love to believe that Trump and his cronies will be lead away in handcuffs and every detention camp emptied and torn down by morning.

It’s going to mean everyone has to stay on top of this, make our concerns heard as loudly as we can, and fight every measure that could lead to Magneto and what he represents being compromised.

Honestly aside from killing off Pietro.
I honestly don't see AoU as a mistake, it's then or never.
If the twins are introduced only when Mutants and Mags are around, Wanda would lose her opportunity to be properly portrayed as an Avenger. I honestly don't need another animation-like Wanda adaption.
Then when Mutants are around, let Pietro be an active player and Wanda can stay in her comfortable mystical corner.

[jmc247]

“It is a mash-up between American sitcoms throughout the decades and Marvel film with these characters,” she said. “That’s where it starts,” Bettany added, “and then it sort of snowballs into an epic Marvel movie that you’ve grown to know or love.”

Intriguing! We’ve speculated before that WandaVision will do a loose adaptation of the Vision comic book run by Tom King, though there’s also a chance that the series could pull from the House of M event crossover in which Wanda reshapes reality after undergoing a horrible trauma. Both story arcs could build to the unique mish-mash of genres that Olsen and Bettany are describing, and the unsettlingly perfect ’50s-style reality we see in the poster. The pair wouldn’t name which comic books the series would draw inspiration from, but Olsen expressed excitement for where WandaVision is going:

“Just from starting from Age of Ultron. The things that I’ve loved about the Scarlet Witch are things we’re getting to explore now. And I’m very nervous and excited about it in all the fun ways. But I think we finally get to go down some roads in comic books that are favorites and explore, and it’s going to be a wild ride.”

https://www.slashfilm.com/wandavision-details-bonkers/

More about the coming series.

[Witchfan]

How do you guys feel about Wanda being classified as a human pretender in House of X #4.

[phoenixzero23]

How do you guys feel about Wanda being classified as a human pretender in House of X #4.

I think it is a total disrespect to her.

[jmc247]

I think Wanda as a comic character has suffered since House of M due less from Decimation and more due to an upsetting of the divided custody arrangement she was long under. Bendis and Joe Q used Wanda as a tool first to realign the Avengers titles then to reduce the mutant population so they wouldn't really be involved in events like Civil War. But, traditionally the x-books and Avengers shared Wanda and Pietro so when one side of the franchise didn't want to use them they were handed to the other.

Post HoM Wanda should have been handed to the x-office for awhile as Quicksilver was to PAD for their redemption. This wasn't allowed and was the genesis of the real conflict and anger that built and x-writers and x-fans took it out on Wanda. Eventually the Avengers side decided the politics were ripe with the Fox/Disney dispute going on to hard divorce the twins from anything mutant related and claim sole and exclusive rights to the characters. The x-books didn't have much to say about that because they were neutered and one bad step away from them going the way of the Fantastic Four at the time.

Now Fox and Disney are one big happy family, the x-books are no longer in the dog house and suddenly I suspect the x-books wants the old understanding going back to the 60s back with the Avengers side over Wanda and Pietro. I wouldn't be surprised if the Avengers side isn't resisting that. The line in HoX was a strong and derisive way to remind the audience that Wanda has played a huge role in mutant events and it was designed to get people talking and fired up.

The entire family has suffered in the comics for many years now because the Avengers side and the x-side haven't been able to get along and work together in regard to them as they did in the past. Wanda has suffered much more do to inter office turf conflicts then anything Bendis and Joe Q did to her a decade and a half ago. The sooner the retcon comes down and the old understanding between the x-titles and Avengers titles over the twins is returned the better for Wanda and the rest of the family for that matter.

My hope is that they have an ongoing or maxiseries in the works to fix all this as if they don't I think the conflict that died down a number of years ago over Wanda is going to come back with a vengeance.