Magnus Family Appreciation 2019

[jmc247]

I already like him and he´s right, the films focused way too much on making Magneto´s pov be WRONG that sometimes his actions didn´t made sense at all and it´s logical than between Magneto and Xavier ppl would prefer to negotiate with the second before confronting Magnus and this is more or less what Hickman was going for on the first issue of HOX. I will definitely see what this writer does in Fallen Angels.

I agree it was what Hickman was going for, well the government is taking shape on the new mutant homeland.



Its nice to see the Acolytes back in action and Exodus given a role consummate with his station. Though the developments sort of send Lorna adrift as she doesn't have a role as yet consummate with her station. She isn't involved in politics unlike Genosha, she won't be a queen of the Hellfire Club and she isn't on any of the X-Force like teams. I mean I do expect her to be on some of the big missions when they need a powerful character, but she needs a foothold in with one of the factions.

[MichelleDiMera]

I agree it was what Hickman was going for, well the government is taking shape on the new mutant homeland.



Its nice to see the Acolytes back in action and Exodus given a role consummate with his station. Though the developments sort of send Lorna adrift as she doesn't have a role as yet consummate with her station. She isn't involved in politics unlike Genosha, she won't be a queen of the Hellfire Club and she isn't on any of the X-Force like teams. I mean I do expect her to be on some of the big missions when they need a powerful character, but she needs a foothold in with one of the factions.

So the main book is a rotating cast after all??

[jmc247]

So the main book is a rotating cast after all??

It’s the flagship I suspect it’s stories will be at the core of the franchise and everything will lead back to it at some level, but how rotating the cast is remains unknown.

Anyway Marvel.com has out an infographic video on House of M and also an article on House of M.

[Rivka]

Bumping this wonderful thread to page 1!

So, some were discussing (in another thread, I don't remember where) the possibility that the birth of Pietro and Wanda was the product of Moira-10 manipulations. The thesis being, if Moira-10 plotted the conceptions of Legion and Proteus by arranging for Xavier to meet certain women, and herself to marry Joseph MacTaggert (or hook up with Xavier himself if Proteus is Xavier's son), then wouldn't she have had something to do with the conception of Wanda and Pietro, given Magneto's importance in the triumverate? Well, presuming they are his children. You could also ask the question about Susanna Dane and the birth of Lorna.

It was pointed out that Max's marriage to Magda was before Moira's time, but then I pointed out that Natalya is now the mother of the twins, and that happened after Magneto became costumed Magneto, when Moira was a young woman. She was after reality-warping mutants. But the twins might have fooled her. What if Pietro was born the mutant, and Wanda was not? But she--because of Chthon--became the host of reality-warping powers? If the Heroes Office doesn't want to make Wanda a mutant again, she can still be Magneto's daughter. One of Natalya's twins was a mutant and one wasn't.

The High Evolutionary hates mutants. He apparently always has. He is the master of the very genetic engineering, evolution-tinkering that (I think) Hickman is describing as humanity's destined future. Herbert Wyndham was a scientist in the 1920s who received a massive amount of advanced information from a stranger in 1925, who later turned out to be Apocalypse. He experimented on people and animals, creating ani-men, and enhanced human beings. It makes sense to me that he always knew mutants were a threat to humanity; he swooped in and kidnapped Natlaya's babies fairly quickly after they were born, experimented on them too. For what purpose? To use them to create a better genetically engineered super-powered being?

So, did Moira know about Magneto's children before Magneto did? Did she and Xavier keep their existence secret from Magneto? There's some evidence for that in canon, in some older Origins comic books (or was it Professor X and the X-Men? I can't remember). Xavier not only knew before Magneto that Wanda and Pietro existed, but he asked them to join his earliest team of X-Men (they refused).

Also, which origin story is the real one? Did the H.E. gave the babies back to their original parents, Django and Marya Maximoff, as in the first re-telling, or, as shown in the most recent Scarlet Witch series, was Natalya their mother, she was hunted down by a crazed angry Magneto and she battled him to protect the existence of her babies, who she gave to her sister, Marya and Marya's husband Django, because they didn't have any children of their own. I'm going to go with the Natalya story. In any case, the High Evolutionary still kidnapped the babies once Natalya was dead, and experimented on them. Or did he give the twins to the Maximoffs (once he was finished with them) himself, and Natalya never did so, and the fact that Marya is Natalya's sister is a coincidence?

Some questions remain. Why did the H.E. really experiment on Wanda and Pietro, what did he really do? Why disguise them as mutants if they weren't? Why provide biological and genetic proof they are Magneto's children, if they were not? My theory is, if Wanda isn't a mutant. the H.E. could have used genetic material--sequences representing the x-gene and it's alleles--from Pietro to splice on one of Wanda's junk genes to give her a mutant reading without the gene expressing itself when she reached puberty. It makes more sense that this would work, if the genetic material came from her twin brother who gestated in the same womb.

Could Moira-10 have manipulated the conception and birth of Wanda and Pietro, somehow? Did she lose control over them when the H.E. kidnapped them? Magneto knew nothing about it, and was in his psychotic phase; I'm thinking he was delusional and thought Natalya was Magda.

Same with Susanna Dane. Did Magneto meet her on orders from Moira-10? Or did Moira-10 manipulate them both so that they'd meet?

Hickman says no more Omega Mutants, but Polaris certainly has the potential to become one, as Magneto's daughter and heir.

[salarta]

Hickman says no more Omega Mutants, but Polaris certainly has the potential to become one, as Magneto's daughter and heir.

I mean, past writing first says Lorna could rival/surpass Magneto, then goes on to say she's at least his equal.






But then, these bits ignored is to be expected given everything else about her has been ignored (being on and surviving Genosha, launching Krakoa into space, being a notable X-woman, etc). I'm not putting much stock into anything happening right now. It's status quo filler thinking and behavior with minor tweaks. I'm waiting for what comes after Hickman.

[jmc247]

Hickman says no more Omega Mutants, but Polaris certainly has the potential to become one, as Magneto's daughter and heir.

Reading between the lines of the new definition of Omega that Hickman put out Magneto would have to die for Lorna to achieve the status and he can't die now. I don't care about the tiering of mutant powers and never did. I only care Lorna is willing to use her powers in unique ways and ones that allows her to stand out from the crowd. For Lorna its hard when you just want her to recapture the imagination of fans the way the character did a decade and a half ago.

I think with the twins on some level Marvel is waiting for the MCU to play their cards with their upcoming storylines and how they set up Magneto's entrance into the MCU. The comics will eventually fix their parentage, but I doubt the fix will peg their birth to WW2 the way the original story did.

[coveredinbees]

Is Luna still accepted here? The Inhumane appreciation thread in the MU is closed. Has she ever stared into Crystal's soul like she did Pietro? Or Magneto's?

[salarta]

Is Luna still accepted here? The Inhumane appreciation thread in the MU is closed. Has she ever stared into Crystal's soul like she did Pietro? Or Magneto's?

I accept the whole family, which naturally includes Luna. I just tend to focus more on Lorna, Wanda, Pietro and Magneto more.

[Rivka]

I mean, past writing first says Lorna could rival/surpass Magneto, then goes on to say she's at least his equal.


But then, these bits ignored is to be expected given everything else about her has been ignored (being on and surviving Genosha, launching Krakoa into space, being a notable X-woman, etc). I'm not putting much stock into anything happening right now. It's status quo filler thinking and behavior with minor tweaks. I'm waiting for what comes after Hickman.

I'm afraid we're facing a long wait until this X-Men era is over.

But as for Lorna, she was written well by Hickman, and I like her closeness to Magneto at the moment. If she's going to be in the main X-MEN book, we can only hope she's not just window-dressing and Mr. Hickman actually utilizes her as a fighter and team leader. But there's no advocating at the moment, it seems to me. Mr. Hickman will write her the way he wants.

Thanks for the pictures, by the way. Maybe it will help to get more comic book pages up here that show all facets of Polaris, her powers and her personality.

[Rivka]

Is Luna still accepted here? The Inhumane appreciation thread in the MU is closed. Has she ever stared into Crystal's soul like she did Pietro? Or Magneto's?

It's closed? Why did they close it? And YES, Luna is fam-i-leee! I was going to post something specifically about Luna. Like, right now she's considered half Inhuman and survived exposure to the T Mists and has her empath/emotion reading powers. When her father was a mutant (I still consider him a mutant) she wouldn't be considered "half mutant" unless she had the X-gene, is that correct? Made me think about kids like her, with one mutant parent who leaves for Mutant Rapture (Krakoastan) and the child couldn't follow. But also, I was thinking about Pietro's mother, Natalya. She was a Romani with inherited magical powers. I wonder if Luna has the potential for any of Natalya's magical abilities? Everyone thinks of Wanda as the witch, but her niece has the same genetic heritage.

To answer your question, I'd have to go back and look at SON OF M and the follow up SILENT WAR; I don't remember exactly, but wasn't there some point where Luna tried to read him and he told her to stop? Wouldn't that be amazing if the entire family were acknowledged again, and Luna was able to "read" her Aunt Wanda, too. I loved the scene where Luna scanned a beaten Magneto and said, to paraphrase, *He's not a bad man, he's a sad man.* (Behind Blue Eyes.)

[jmc247]

I'm afraid we're facing a long wait until this X-Men era is over.

But as for Lorna, she was written well by Hickman, and I like her closeness to Magneto at the moment. If she's going to be in the main X-MEN book, we can only hope she's not just window-dressing and Mr. Hickman actually utilizes her as a fighter and team leader. But there's no advocating at the moment, it seems to me. Mr. Hickman will write her the way he wants.

Thanks for the pictures, by the way. Maybe it will help to get more comic book pages up here that show all facets of Polaris, her powers and her personality.

Given the sales numbers and level of interest this is going to be a long run. I know your issue with the set up so far and agree in a number of areas. But, yes I would also say Hickman did well by Lorna in HoX. He gave her more depth then Bendis did in HoM though similar panel time for each event.

[Rivka]

Reading between the lines of the new definition of Omega that Hickman put out Magneto would have to die for Lorna to achieve the status and he can't die now. I don't care about the tiering of mutant powers and never did. I only care Lorna is willing to use her powers in unique ways and ones that allows her to stand out from the crowd. For Lorna its hard when you just want her to recapture the imagination of fans the way the character did a decade and a half ago.

I think with the twins on some level Marvel is waiting for the MCU to play their cards with their upcoming storylines and how they set up Magneto's entrance into the MCU. The comics will eventually fix their parentage, but I doubt the fix will peg their birth to WW2 the way the original story did.

Say what? Seriously? I didn't get that at all but I defer to your analysis. So the Omegas number is set in stone and one of them has to die for another to be named? Then this is more of a political designation, like "Knights of the Garter" than a scientific classification?

She needs a writer who values powerful female characters and writes her using her powers in imaginative and successful ways which takes panel-space, so the writer needs to value her!

Yeah, Marvel Studios hasn't made up their minds about how to include the X-Men, so I guess any developments as to Wanda's status as Magneto's daughter are on hold. But then, there's WANDA-VISION, the tv show, so .... But I agree, if the Axis retcon was a result of the MCU not being able to use mutants, now that the MCU can use mutants, maybe this will be the inspiration for Marvel comic books to reverse the retcon and give Magneto back his missing children.

[coveredinbees]

It's closed? Why did they close it? And YES, Luna is fam-i-leee! I was going to post something specifically about Luna. Like, right now she's considered half Inhuman and survived exposure to the T Mists and has her empath/emotion reading powers. When her father was a mutant (I still consider him a mutant) she wouldn't be considered "half mutant" unless she had the X-gene, is that correct? Made me think about kids like her, with one mutant parent who leaves for Mutant Rapture (Krakoastan) and the child couldn't follow. But also, I was thinking about Pietro's mother, Natalya. She was a Romani with inherited magical powers. I wonder if Luna has the potential for any of Natalya's magical abilities? Everyone thinks of Wanda as the witch, but her niece has the same genetic heritage.

To answer your question, I'd have to go back and look at SON OF M and the follow up SILENT WAR; I don't remember exactly, but wasn't there some point where Luna tried to read him and he told her to stop? Wouldn't that be amazing if the entire family were acknowledged again, and Luna was able to "read" her Aunt Wanda, too. I loved the scene where Luna scanned a beaten Magneto and said, to paraphrase, *He's not a bad man, he's a sad man.* (Behind Blue Eyes.)

Thanks!! Good to know the retcon didn't affect this thread, lol. I remember her reading Pietro and finding him wanting, but a dear friend has been reading FF to me and Crystal is the worst. The absolute worst. It's made me wonder what Luna reads from her and Medusa as well, who is also terrible lately. Poor kiddo.

[salarta]

I'm afraid we're facing a long wait until this X-Men era is over.

But as for Lorna, she was written well by Hickman, and I like her closeness to Magneto at the moment. If she's going to be in the main X-MEN book, we can only hope she's not just window-dressing and Mr. Hickman actually utilizes her as a fighter and team leader. But there's no advocating at the moment, it seems to me. Mr. Hickman will write her the way he wants.

Thanks for the pictures, by the way. Maybe it will help to get more comic book pages up here that show all facets of Polaris, her powers and her personality.

I don't expect the current event to be done overnight, but it's also not the be-all end-all people see it as. I anticipate a trajectory akin to the 2013 Tomb Raider "reboot," as it has roughly similar conditions.

The larger question is what's best for Lorna. People have different views. I'm considering Marvel's past and recent behavior, especially in its treatment of Lorna, and considering what's likely to come. I think I've seen enough to know how to approach all of this from my end. I'm not really concerned with advocating Lorna to Hickman (or anyone at Marvel, really) considering he should know her already. If not inherently, then during basic research. And that's all I really feel up for saying on CBR, in its current state.

Welcome on the pictures; even in this situation it's worth noting such things when needed.

[jmc247]

Say what? Seriously? I didn't get that at all but I defer to your analysis. So the Omegas number is set in stone and one of them has to die for another to be named? Then this is more of a political designation, like "Knights of the Garter" than a scientific classification?

She needs a writer who values powerful female characters and writes her using her powers in imaginative and successful ways which takes panel-space, so the writer needs to value her!

In HoX #1 Hickman described it as something that can only exist for one mutant in a certain area. I have already wasted too much of my time talking about it. Its a 90s battle term I have never been a fan of so writers can hype who they want to hype.

I will only say what Lorna needs is a writer who values her sure, but also manages to see the characters history, philosophy and how that can be used for pre-building relationships. Lorna has almost no relationships left. We know with what characters. If Lorna is going to be written away from the A-B list characters which I am leery of after the disaster that was the 90s and the era after she was booted into space a huge effort has to be put into building the characters voice and philosophy and views.

Lorna's biggest problem comes down to not having bankable relationships or enough of a pre-built in views or views that it entices writers to want to use her with their top 5 or 10 characters. I don't simply want a Lorna 'fix' like some fans, I want to see her have long term success and that will only be had if writers can look at Lorna and see her views and then look at Jean and see how they can work together and butt heads.

Lorna having generally good relationships with everyone doesn't do her a service. Having forced conflict with her father doesn't do her a service either. I really think and it fits what Hickman has written so far that Lorna can have a friendly and adversarial relationship with major core x-characters. Once fans have a solid idea how Lorna reacts and sees the world the relationships almost write themselves in the heads of fans and future writers.

Hickman may not love the character over Magneto, but right now I feel he is helping to give Lorna a voice that could greatly benefit her actually building relationships with the major X-Men down the road. That isn't a minor thing, it would be worth its weight in gold if the next set of writers could see how the character could interact with other core X-Men to their mutual benefit as most writers haven't seen it.