View Poll Results: Do you love him?

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  • Hell yes!

    164 78.85%
  • Absolutely!

    85 40.87%
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  1. #5146
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoy View Post
    Here’s hoping that Hickman continues Cyclops’ Return to what he was, the X-Men’s Master Tactician, Prototypical Hero, the one who can keep wilder personalities like Gambit, Wolverine, Archangel, etc in Line, who would at times remember to relax, maybe smile a bit (or brood less), and not slide back into Mutant Revolutionary General he was from Utopia thru Death of X.....so no more formkng secret Kill Teams, fighting Captain America, making bad calls, alienating long time friends and teammates (any takers on my Outside Manipulator Theory, it’s one way to ease some of the bad blood......now we just need Emma to admit she used Scott for the last few years, either as a pawn herself or that this was one of Sinister’s Grand Schemes......Or Stryfe, or Red Queen.....hell, even Mesmero or a unknown Wyngarde.......)
    Saying Emma was manipulating him is just throwing her under the bus, which would infuriate her fans, make a bigger case for Scott's haters and overall do nothing for his narrative as a character.

    What I'm saying is that this is a bad idea and the only thing introducing an "outside manipulator" would do is to wreck Scott as a character even more.

    About him being a prototypical hero, that's just hitting the reset button to make him more suitable to the tastes of readers who can't handle moral ambiguity, so it doesn't do much for me, unless it's really well done. Not that it matters. I already have to deal with CBRClops every time an Uncanny issue comes out, next we'll have to deal with him pining for Jean again and wait patiently until the next character-breaking decision editorial will make on Scott's love life, because he can't get over her as anyone mentally sane would recommend.
    Hunting's no fun when your prey doesn't move.

  2. #5147
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor_Foxey View Post
    I completely agree with this. Cyclops and Emma's characterization is much more realistic during this time was much more realistic to the circumstances and real world heroic leaders. The hard decisions Cyke makes remind me of Sisko during the war with the dominion in DS9. "A guilty conscious is a small price to pay for the safety of mutant kind and of the world." Honestly the fact that so many X-men abandoned Cyclops during that time and all the contrived plot armor they gave Wolverine was very unrealistic. Realistically Wolverine's school should have meet the same fate as the one they left behind way sooner. Though tactically if I was Cyke I would have tried to move the city far away from the US, maybe to the savage land.
    Keeping Scott's continuity intact and dealing with any tension between him and other characters is a much better proposition than simply retconning his actions as being primarily or solely influenced by a manipulator in the shadows. I can't think of any retcons that actually resulted in better stories.

  3. #5148
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    next we'll have to deal with him pining for Jean again .
    Because never mind the fact that part of the point of the most popular runs in the 21st century (Whedon's and Morrison's) was exactly him getting over Jean, but MY CHILDHOOD NOSTALGIA!

    Like I've said in other threads, we have to wait until the people who were kids when Morrison and Whedon's runs come out begin to take over their books so they can deal with THEIR childhood nostalgia, because right now if it were up to the middle-aged men at Marvel, everything would go back to the 80's and 90's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I can't think of any retcons that actually resulted in better stories.
    The only good retcons, as a rule. were made to clean up other retcons- Avengers Forever is a prime example of this, entirely done to retcon the disaster that was mid-90's Avengers.

  4. #5149
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    But Scott is a straight Caucasian male! DisMarvel doesn't like those types~~~

    But really, though, I still find it ironic that the dude that doesn't like the character they're writing (Gillen to Cyke) wrote a better character than the dude wanking his pet (Aaron to Wolvie). I will give Breevort props for one thing: he was real about why Marvel would rather focus on the Avengers than the X-Men. My frustration comes from the Avengers hijacking the Messiah Trilogy at the last minute. It's like Captain Marvel being shoehorned into Endgame at the proverbial final hour.
    The only thing I can think of is that a writer who is indifferent towards a character has a better chance of remaining objective to that characters' treatment in their story, as opposed to a writer who actively loves or hates a character - this writer is more likely to let their bias adversely affect the quality of their writing.

    That really grinds my gears even today - the Avengers totally hijacked the Messiah Trilogy, they had no business being so heavily involved so late in the narrative. Whenever that's done, the new additions become superfluous at best (Captain Marvel in Endgame) and actively detrimental to the narrative at worst (Avengers in the Messiah Narrative).

    Quote Originally Posted by xiyon View Post
    I find it fascinating too. I mean, logic dictates that it's all according to the writer's/editor's plan, but looking at the poor writing and interviews, it really wasn't. Case in point, they're still trying to hammer in the narrative 7 years later, and it still doesn't stick.
    Why don't they just give it up? What reason do any of them have to defend that trash narrative all these years later? sigh

  5. #5150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post

    Why don't they just give it up? What reason do any of them have to defend that trash narrative all these years later? sigh
    There's no objective reason, so the only motive could be pettiness from someone involved.

  6. #5151
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Because never mind the fact that part of the point of the most popular runs in the 21st century (Whedon's and Morrison's) was exactly him getting over Jean, but MY CHILDHOOD NOSTALGIA!

    Like I've said in other threads, we have to wait until the people who were kids when Morrison and Whedon's runs come out begin to take over their books so they can deal with THEIR childhood nostalgia, because right now if it were up to the middle-aged men at Marvel, everything would go back to the 80's and 90's.



    The only good retcons, as a rule. were made to clean up other retcons- Avengers Forever is a prime example of this, entirely done to retcon the disaster that was mid-90's Avengers.
    Yeah, sure Crapping on jott isn't going to make scemma happen again. Scott and Emma broke up years ago by that logic scemma is nostalgia too.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 05-19-2019 at 06:55 PM.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  7. #5152
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Yeah, sure Crapping on jott isn't going to make scemma happen again. Scott and Emma broke up years ago by that logic scemma is nostalgia too.
    I won’t speak for Omega Alpha, but I’m not asking for a return of Scemma; I just want their history respected. I say this knowing full well that Jott’s history was disparaged, and I wish that hadn’t happened, but that wouldn’t justify Scemma/Scott/Emma being treated poorly in turn.

  8. #5153
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I won’t speak for Omega Alpha, but I’m not asking for a return of Scemma; I just want their history respected. I say this knowing full well that Jott’s history was disparaged, and I wish that hadn’t happened, but that wouldn’t justify Scemma/Scott/Emma being treated poorly in turn.
    Exactly this. All I am personally asking for is character consistency.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #5154
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Yeah, sure Crapping on jott isn't going to make scemma happen again. Scott and Emma broke up years ago by that logic scemma is nostalgia too.
    I think you're missing his point. The point isn't that Jott is nostalgic, the point is that the characters themselves have not moved in an orbit to make it logically consistent. It is being forced to appeal to nostalgia, not because it logically fits the characters. They still have a lot to work through, not to mention every other possible hiccup.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #5155
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I won’t speak for Omega Alpha, but I’m not asking for a return of Scemma; I just want their history respected. I say this knowing full well that Jott’s history was disparaged, and I wish that hadn’t happened, but that wouldn’t justify Scemma/Scott/Emma being treated poorly in turn.
    I think both parties should feel the pain, it is only fair. All things perfectly balanced

  11. #5156
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I think both parties should feel the pain, it is only fair. All things perfectly balanced
    Thinking like this will only lead the X-Men comics to long-term harm.

    Balance? How would that balance anything?

  12. #5157
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Thinking like this will only lead the X-Men comics to long-term harm.

    Balance? How would that balance anything?
    Harm was already made. It is time to be done with the harm made

    everyone know the crap th eother side went throught. everyone come out better

  13. #5158
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I think you're missing his point. The point isn't that Jott is nostalgic, the point is that the characters themselves have not moved in an orbit to make it logically consistent. It is being forced to appeal to nostalgia, not because it logically fits the characters. They still have a lot to work through, not to mention every other possible hiccup.
    Yep. Scott's arc in both Morrison and Whedon's run was about him getting over Jean.

    I'm not saying it's impossible they could end up together again, it's not like plenty of exes end up together again eventually, but have them together because it's the "OTP" and ignoring the fact that Scott:
    1) Hasn't seen her in years;
    2) Is a very different person now;
    3) Was ready to leave her anyway in Morrison's run and had a long-term relationship with someone else that ended only because of the Phoenix (although, ironically, the same can be said about Jean, both times);

    It's plain bad writing because of "MY CHILDHOOD" bullshit.

    Even if Scott doesn't end with Emma, it would be a much better story if he ends with someone other than Jean; first, because his life was so defined by Jean he literally married a clone of her. Second, because Jean is seeing as almost a saint by the X-men with all the deaths, and could have pretty much every straight male X-man she wanted to; it would be a good story if she can't have exactly the one guy she wants, and has to deal and eventually move on from it.

    While Emma works better for this, there would be something funny if after all the drama and years of debates among fans, Scott ends with someone else entirely unrelated to the story.

  14. #5159
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Yeah, no. Sorry that's what Morrison already did. I don't want Scott to look like an asshole again.
    And yes Cyclops owes to Jean, he always will, sorry if you don't like it.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  15. #5160
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Yeah, no. Sorry that's what Morrison already did. I don't want Scott to look like an asshole again.
    And yes Cyclops owes to Jean, he always will, sorry if you don't like it.
    Heh, I'm not sure about which part you're talking about exactly.

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