View Poll Results: Do you love him?

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  • Hell yes!

    193 78.78%
  • Absolutely!

    96 39.18%
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  1. #6106
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    At this point we should just accept Marvel thinks everything Scott did from Morrison and beyond was a mistake and we should conform to whatever JDW, Rosenberg and God knows who else says about him. It's easier to just turn your emotions off on this subject and accept the message that the fact that an arc made the character more engaging/interesting to you is irrelevant if the powers that be and those who give them money disagree. It's honestly less frustrating.
    I get that many people liked "rightclops" and it was an interesting development but I honestly doubt that was going to last forever. It could have been fun but only for the moment at the long run it would have been way more problematic and probably unsustainable.
    My ships
    Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther

  2. #6107
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    I did not like Rightclops because he was edgy, I liked hum because finally the X-Men seemed to take ideas like self-determination and safe spaces. Scott was opposed to police brutality, to the prison industry ... He was being a force for change instead of using the Xavier strategy of "If we show them that we are good they can tolerate our existence".

    Scott felt modern, in tune with the 21st century and how discrimination does not look the same now as when the X-Men were born in the 1960s.

  3. #6108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    At this point we should just accept Marvel thinks everything Scott did from Morrison and beyond was a mistake and we should conform to whatever JDW, Rosenberg and God knows who else says about him. It's easier to just turn your emotions off on this subject and accept the message that the fact that an arc made the character more engaging/interesting to you is irrelevant if the powers that be and those who give them money disagree. It's honestly less frustrating.
    In our Lord and Savior, Jonathan of the House of Hickman I trust. But without him around, vou would be right. We would probably just see variations of X-men Gold, just less on the nose about it. Seems like the dream of some at Marvel (not all) is ignore everything after 1992 except X-23 and Magik being adult again.

  4. #6109
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I get that many people liked "rightclops" and it was an interesting development but I honestly doubt that was going to last forever. It could have been fun but only for the moment at the long run it would have been way more problematic and probably unsustainable.
    Again, that's not what a lot of our problem is, it's not about going away from "rightclops" it'ss basically saying everything he did in that era was all bad or he was a villain, He made some mistakes yes, but not as big as they are being made to be, nor was he the only one. The thing is always going back to that era as him being completely wrong and it being one sided, when it wasn't. Nothing wrong with him evolving and wanting to take a more pacifist route now that he seen where it took him with his friends and family(I mean,he still cared about them,it's not really his fault they hated him he can't control that),but that doesn't mean he was wrong for doing it.


    Also, "Rightclops" has been dead since like 2014 anyway.
    Last edited by Neocide; 06-24-2019 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #6110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I did not like Rightclops because he was edgy, I liked hum because finally the X-Men seemed to take ideas like self-determination and safe spaces. Scott was opposed to police brutality, to the prison industry ... He was being a force for change instead of using the Xavier strategy of "If we show them that we are good they can tolerate our existence".

    Scott felt modern, in tune with the 21st century and how discrimination does not look the same now as when the X-Men were born in the 1960s.
    Yep. Like I said, even back then he disbanded X-force because there was no need for it. But Marvel seems hell-bent in throw away and reject everything that happened in the 21st century with him, which, regardless whether you prefer the modern take or not, It's illogical from a business sense: why would you want to make most fans of one of your most popular characters angry for no reason? They could simply not address the Decimation era, but they are doing it and their approach borders on pathetic sometimes- any time Havok opens his mouth, most notably.

  6. #6111
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Yep. Like I said, even back then he disbanded X-force because there was no need for it. But Marvel seems hell-bent in throw away and reject everything that happened in the 21st century with him, which, regardless whether you prefer the modern take or not, It's illogical from a business sense: why would you want to make most fans of one of your most popular characters angry for no reason? They could simply not address the Decimation era, but they are doing it and their approach borders on pathetic sometimes- any time Havok opens his mouth, most notably.
    Ideally, Scott would return to a more heroic version of himself in a natural fashion. The realization that people cheered when the mutants all vanished, that going as dark as he did was basically for nothing, these things alone should be enough to make him assess himself in a very critical light, even if he was moving away from that based on it not being needed anymore.

    But what we currently have, where other characters have what they did on panel brushed aside while Scott is guilty for the headcanon of the current Marvel staff is just 10 shades of disgusting.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  7. #6112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I did not like Rightclops because he was edgy, I liked hum because finally the X-Men seemed to take ideas like self-determination and safe spaces. Scott was opposed to police brutality, to the prison industry ... He was being a force for change instead of using the Xavier strategy of "If we show them that we are good they can tolerate our existence".

    Scott felt modern, in tune with the 21st century and how discrimination does not look the same now as when the X-Men were born in the 1960s.
    Tried to articulate why RightClops felt like a natural progression, and you've nailed most of my thoughts perfectly. It feels like the current X-Office is trying to cash in on nostalgia because the creative team is in a slump, but the social context/argument has already evolved with time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Ideally, Scott would return to a more heroic version of himself in a natural fashion. The realization that people cheered when the mutants all vanished, that going as dark as he did was basically for nothing, these things alone should be enough to make him assess himself in a very critical light, even if he was moving away from that based on it not being needed anymore.

    But what we currently have, where other characters have what they did on panel brushed aside while Scott is guilty for the headcanon of the current Marvel staff is just 10 shades of disgusting.
    I'm more amused JDW came on here and confirmed he's firing his headcanon. Like, way to drop the ball on your agenda. I'll say it before and I'll say it again: being an X-Editor is probably the easiest job in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    The true question to ask however with the current run, is who Scott deems as a priority to rescue: Emma or Logan?
    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    Cyke: "Mmmm. Creepy psycho-ex or would-be creepy psycho-ex?"
    Is it bad that it took me a moment to distinguish one from the other? And even after that, I'm only 50% sure? XD
    Don't like? Don't read. Let your wallet talk.

    When will Logan call out Jean for putting his clone and his clone's underage clone in an X-Squad?

  8. #6113
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    The problem of mentioning X-23 in X-Force is that it forces to mention the elephant in the room that is that Tyke and Laura had a teenage crush.

  9. #6114
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    If X-force will be brought up, it will almost certainly be in Rosenberg's run- Elixir being there makes it possible. Of course bringing it up would, in theory, have to acnowledge the fact that Wolverine, despite complaining, was also using teenagers in X-force and could have put an end to it, but since JDW loves Schism so much and thought Cyclops was wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't brought up at all.

  10. #6115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The problem of mentioning X-23 in X-Force is that it forces to mention the elephant in the room that is that Tyke and Laura had a teenage crush.
    Ah, Tyke-23. Truly the greatest ship we'll never know~~~
    Don't like? Don't read. Let your wallet talk.

    When will Logan call out Jean for putting his clone and his clone's underage clone in an X-Squad?

  11. #6116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    Respectfully FUBAR, your points are out of date in my opinion. UXM vol 3, ANXM, DoX and UXM vol 5 put paid to whatever redemption was possible at the time given how the X-Men in general were dealing with Scott through those stories. If it was 2013, I'd agree you're making valid points. What JDW appears to be saying is that none of that mattered and he's basically in the same status quo as AvX Consequences which seems bewildering.
    Scott's still a broken man. He's turned a corner since his resurrection and merger with Tyke, but he's still a man smashed to pieces by years of loss. He's no longer in denial and started taking responsibility for his actions--a process that began at the end of Bendis's run but got preempted by Secret Wars and then IvX--and he's trying to do the right thing. He's still not healed nor whole, though. In other words, Scott isn't RightClops anymore, but he's still not BoyScott, either. He's...TykeClops.

    As for JDW, he and whichever writer(s) he's working with have a story they want to tell that JDW feels very strongly about. We can't properly judge it, or what exactly JDW feels Scott still needs redemption for, until we see it explicitly spelled out.

    This isn't about BoyClops vs RightClops. In case you've forgotten, I tend to prefer Scott's classic characterization.
    When I was talking about RightClops fans, I wasn't referring to you. That portion of my comments was my analysis of where the disconnect between RightClops fans and Marvel editorial came from.

    That's said I can still call a spade a spade. The fact that editorial seems unable to move on from this one perspective of Scott and are unwilling to accept that anything's changed since AvX is the problem. Supposedly we are about to open up a new era for the X-Men, but not for Scott.
    That's not yet clear. Again, I have a hunch JDW was referring to the end of Rosenberg's run as, based on what we've seen so far, Hickman isn't going to be continuing current story threads.

    I'd be the first one to root for Jean and Scott getting back together, but I'd hate to think that we need to go to those lengths for Scott to be morally acceptable to the X-Men, or even himself. Could you imagine Marvel ever trying the reverse. They'd be tarred and feathered nine ways from Sunday. If we're to take anything from Jean's book, how about a convenient retcon that absolves Scott of all responsibly so we just move on from this broken and unconvincing narrative that Scott needs further penance.
    What I meant by "threading the needle" wasn't using Scott's years of loss and reunion with Jean as a means of "redemption".* Rather, I meant that as an alternative to "redemption". A way of reconciling Scott's Extinction-era behavior with the more traditional hero Marvel seems to want to turn him back into, but in a way that's broadly credible to the fanbase. Scott didn't so much go bad during those years as go slowly nuts due to worsening PTSD.

    *You seem to be using "redemption" to refer to Scott's standing with the rest of the X-Men. I've been using "redemption" in a broader, meta sense, referring to Marvel's desire to re-characterize Scott as a more traditional hero.

    Anyway, Scott doesn't need "redemption". He needs love, understanding, and a whole shitload of therapy.
    Last edited by FUBAR007; 06-25-2019 at 07:50 AM.

  12. #6117
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    Of course Scott right now is broken: not only he thinks all the X-men are dead, including Jean and his son, he literally doesn't remember the woman he loved and loved him in the last few years. Hell, he probably thinks he spent all those years since Jean died alone, without any support, and also died alone. Also, unless Rosenberg is going to pull a retcon, we've already seen everything that Scott could probably need redemption for, and it makes zero sense. And considering JDW hasn't said ONE WORD about Logan needing redemption, when he's guilty of every crime Scott is and then a lot more, and even Bishop will be back in the X-men, not only is hypocritical, but smells like there's ulterior motives.

  13. #6118

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    Can we get the thread title changed to "JDW Speculation Thread"?

  14. #6119
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan D. White View Post
    Can we get the thread title changed to "JDW Speculation Thread"?
    That would mean your appreciation thread/temple would also have to be rebuilt!
    Dance games are my divine punishment from the Lord. May my furnace be forever fueled.

  15. #6120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan D. White View Post
    Can we get the thread title changed to "JDW Speculation Thread"?
    No, we are not allowed to use "thread" in thread names.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ARDS-amp-RULES

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