Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[wano]

Cyclops blaming himself for everything is no surprise, he did after dark Phoenix, after Maddie, after Nathan went to the future, after Jean died, after avx so it's pretty consistent with his character whether we like it or not ¬¬

Now there's a certain pretentiousness to that that I'm sure cyclops doesn't even realize, by putting himself as the sole responsible for what happens he also puts himself as the one that's meant to be a Savior, messiah and martyr thus reducing the importance of the rest of the X-Men to mere cheerleaders and supporters for his next fall and sacrifice and when the war is over he's both a Savior and a destroyer while everyone else is sidelined thus placing the core narrative on him. Every mutant has a choice on what happens, can take decisions and those influence what happens to their race in the future, If theoretically everyone shouldered the responsibility of what happens instead of willingly allow cyclops to become a martyr then everyone would have a chance to shine. Cyclops blaming himself allows him to shoulder the good and the bad thus giving room for growth and complex stories, while having other characters not wanting to be bad makes their stories bland, cookie cutter with no stakes and lame

[TheCape]

Thoughts on this?

Nothing new, it come across as whinning because the facts never supported the narrative that Marvel tried to selll and that annoy fans, is basically what Cyclop fans had complained about since AvX i think. As i said before, Marvel, at least under current editorial, isn't going to acknoledge that their narrative failed, simple as that. I think that at the end of this story is going to be in a more healthy mindset, but the path to that isn't going to be much of your liking sadly.

[Glio]

I honestly do not know what they are looking for. I have the feeling that apart from old fans of Cyclops (90s and earlier) what they are doing only aligns fans of the character against Uncanny.

I guess they think "We want the X-Men to be everything as in the 90s and there was a Cyclops" but for me Cyclops in the 90s was boring.

[TheCape]

I honestly do not know what they are looking for. I have the feeling that apart from old fans of Cyclops (90s and earlier) what they are doing only aligns fans of the character against Uncanny.

I guess they think "We want the X-Men to be everything as in the 90s and there was a Cyclops" but for me Cyclops in the 90s was boring.

Seems to be a popular opinion on this thread. I personally thougth that 90s Cyclops was fine, he wasn't as emotionally tored as the previous decade, but that was understandable, he went througth a big characther arc and got his well earned reward, so i didn't see a problem with it.

[Glio]

Seems to be a popular opinion on this thread. I personally thougth that 90s Cyclops was fine, he wasn't as emotionally tored as the previous decade, but that was understandable, he went througth a big characther arc and got his well earned reward, so i didn't see a problem with it.

I must say that the "retreat" to the 90 of the franchise worries me more in general than Scott. How they seem to treat the human-mutant relationships seem to be of a place to how minorities should be represented in 2019.

I really like Scott, he's my favorite Marvel character, but everything about "Scott and Wolverine have now arrived, THE MEN" seems to me somewhat retrograde.

[wano]

I must say that the "retreat" to the 90 of the franchise worries me more in general than Scott. How they seem to treat the human-mutant relationships seem to be of a place to how minorities should be represented in 2019.

I really like Scott, he's my favorite Marvel character, but everything about "Scott and Wolverine have now arrived, THE MEN" seems to me somewhat retrograde.

What about kill all men and let's make a matriarchy? Modern enough for ya?

[Glio]

What about kill all men and let's make a matriarchy? Modern enough for ya?

I do not know, for now in Uncanny what we've had is Loa and Blindfold die with the only function of adding drama.

[Ulfhammer]

Thoughts on this?

It took decades for Rightclops to develop. We've have two issues with this new version. I think it's a little early to judge who this new Scott is going to be. Scott's position with the X-Men had become untenable by the time DoX was published. If Scott were to be integrated back in, a narrative reset was required. This is just the reality of the situation. Editorial was not going to back down on the idea that "Scott was wrong" but they wanted him back in the books so some revisionist thinking was required. I'm not defending this thinking, but this is the reality at Marvel. It doesn't matter if we agree with it or not.

If Scott spends a few issues bemoaning his responsibility for the current status quo before shifting into "action guy mode" I think that would be the best possible outcome we could expect. It's actually similar to the X-Factor setup and like in that situation, Scott was ineffective for the first few issues. He was still trying to come to terms with responsibility for the situation he found himself in. The difference in my mind is that Scott was actually responsible for the X-Factor setup, something I don't think is true of the current status quo.

Is it showing respect for the character? Yes and no. On one hand the fact that Marvel wants to see Scott back in X-Men and in a position of authority is showing respect. How they're doing it isn't. I do think it's too early to say how this is going to play out long term. I suspect this will all go away verily soon. Angst about past decisions is a hallmark of Scott's character but I seriously doubt Marvel brought him back just to make his story all about this. It's a redemptive arc. That means is will end and by the end he will be "redeemed".

It sure as hell isn't perfect. Is it so bad that you agree with this panel though?

[Glio]

It took decades for Rightclops to develop. We've have two issues with this new version. I think it's a little early to judge who this new Scott is going to be. Scott's position with the X-Men had become untenable by the time DoX was published. If Scott were to be integrated back in, a narrative reset was required. This is just the reality of the situation. Editorial was not going to back down on the idea that "Scott was wrong" but they wanted him back in the books so some revisionist thinking was required. I'm not defending this thinking, but this is the reality at Marvel. It doesn't matter if we agree with it or not.

If Scott spends a few issues bemoaning his responsibility for the current status quo before shifting into "action guy mode" I think that would be the best possible outcome we could expect. It's actually similar to the X-Factor setup and like in that situation, Scott was ineffective for the first few issues. He was still trying to come to terms with responsibility for the situation he found himself in. The difference in my mind is that Scott was actually responsible for the X-Factor setup, something I don't think is true of the current status quo.

Is it showing respect for the character? Yes and no. On one hand the fact that Marvel wants to see Scott back in X-Men and in a position of authority is showing respect. How they're doing it isn't. I do think it's too early to say how this is going to play out long term. I suspect this will all go away verily soon. Angst about past decisions is a hallmark of Scott's character but I seriously doubt Marvel brought him back just to make his story all about this. It's a redemptive arc. That means is will end and by the end he will be "redeemed".

It sure as hell isn't perfect. Is it so bad that you agree with this panel though?

I have a problem and it is how little fluid everything is. The last actions of Scott before dying were the manifestation in Washington, Time Runs Out and Death of X. After Uncanny X-Men 600 there was no narrative need for him to be seen again as a villain. Marvel complicated things unnecessarily.

Both Death of X and Times Runs Out are totally forced, the last thing we had written in a X-Men series is Scott redeeming himself in Washington. Doing it again feels strange.

Worst? We do not even know how Scott was after Secret Wars. We only saw him dying trying to save some mutants.

[Ulfhammer]

I honestly do not know what they are looking for. I have the feeling that apart from old fans of Cyclops (90s and earlier) what they are doing only aligns fans of the character against Uncanny.

I guess they think "We want the X-Men to be everything as in the 90s and there was a Cyclops" but for me Cyclops in the 90s was boring.

Seems to be a popular opinion on this thread. I personally thougth that 90s Cyclops was fine, he wasn't as emotionally tored as the previous decade, but that was understandable, he went througth a big characther arc and got his well earned reward, so i didn't see a problem with it.

I started being a fan of the boring old 80's Scott so you imagine that I'm ok with Scott going back to a more classic characterization. I don't think Scott ever really changed all that much. His attitudes evolved certainly, but the differences between Rightclops and his earlier incarnations are totally overblown. What changed for Scott was the circumstances he found himself in. Rightclops was a response to events more than a character evolution. If events settle down, so should Scott, so he can take the next step in his evolution. He's moved past the boy scout though that's still a part of him. He needs to move past Rightclops, without losing that part of himself as well.

As for a revision to the 90's for Scott and the X-Men at large, let's consider that for a moment. Scott's life was measurably better in every way during the 90's. If the only Scott you care about is the edgelord version, I guess he needs to stay tortured forever. I'm not interested in anymore of this as a status quo of Scott's life. It's time for him to get a few wins, personally and professionally. A tone change more reminiscent of the 90's will allow for that.

[Glio]

I started being a fan of the boring old 80's Scott so you imagine that I'm ok with Scott going back to a more classic characterization. I don't think Scott ever really changed all that much. His attitudes evolved certainly, but the differences between Rightclops and his earlier incarnations are totally overblown. What changed for Scott was the circumstances he found himself in. Rightclops was a response to events more than a character evolution. If events settle down, so should Scott, so he can take the next step in his evolution. He's moved past the boy scout though that's still a part of him. He needs to move past Rightclops, without losing that part of himself as well.

As for a revision to the 90's for Scott and the X-Men at large, let's consider that for a moment. Scott's life was measurably better in every way during the 90's. If the only Scott you care about is the edgelord version, I guess he needs to stay tortured forever. I'm not interested in anymore of this as a status quo of Scott's life. It's time for him to get a few wins, personally and professionally. A tone change more reminiscent of the 90's will allow for that.

I agree with you on this, but it is strange to see Scott return to that characterization just when the mutants seem to be worse than ever (Again).

Like, if Scott had returned when the mutants do well without him, I would better understand him saying "I have to go back to being like before, I ruined everything". If right when he dies everything goes to hell it's weird.

TL; DR: I agree that Scott would do well to return to a more noble and relaxed characterization but the execution feels strange and unnatural.

[DragonsChi]

I must say that the "retreat" to the 90 of the franchise worries me more in general than Scott. How they seem to treat the human-mutant relationships seem to be of a place to how minorities should be represented in 2019.

I really like Scott, he's my favorite Marvel character, but everything about "Scott and Wolverine have now arrived, THE MEN" seems to me somewhat retrograde.

....The most prominent/popular X-Men outside of Scott, Wolverine, and arguably Magneto are all women. How is that a retrograde!?!

[Glio]

....The most prominent/popular X-Men outside of Scott, Wolverine, and arguably Magneto are all women. How is that a retrograde!?!

The narrative of "Kitty, Ororo and Jean have failed in Disassembled and now Logan and Scott take over" is what bothers me a bit. I have a bit of trouble too with how Rosenberg treats female characters in their stories (Blindfold, for example)

[DragonsChi]

The narrative of "Kitty, Ororo and Jean have failed in Disassembled and now Logan and Scott take over" is what bothers me a bit. I have a bit of trouble too with how Rosenberg treats female characters in their stories (Blindfold, for example)

That's the same exact narrative that was placed on Scott and to some extent Xavier for years. This is actually an example of equal treatment that is somewhat rare at Marvel now.

[Glio]

That's the same exact narrative that was placed on Scott and to some extent Xavier for years. This is actually an example of equal treatment that is somewhat rare at Marvel now.

I guess you're right in that. Let's see how the story evolves.