View Poll Results: Do you love him?

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  1. #6076
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    "Also, Cyclops putting minors in X-force is wrong. Wolverine using those minors on the team rather to report it to the X-men is right, because...reasons".

    Really, knowing JDW reads this forums (and it's probably not the only at Marvel) and sees both how the fans react to those stuff and specially WHY they do and how ridiculous it all sounds makes me yet again wonder about the "someone's ego got hurt in AvX" theory. It's the only idea that fits.

  2. #6077
    Astonishing Member AHRNIHAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    On the contrary. JDW's remark has to do with something Scott did before "Schism". My guess is he's referring to the formation of kill-squad X-Force. Jean's already forgiven Scott for the affair with Emma so that's out.
    He already said about X-force.
    He has something else now.

    OTOH, who knows, maybe White is one of those who's still pissed about Scott walking out on Madelyne back in 1986
    That makes sense.If nostalgia is his thing.
    And CC is still pissed about.Maybe White is too.Can't blame him on that.
    He is the rock that their island nation is built upon. The people of Krakoa know him and what he has done for them over the years, and they look up to him. He might not be RULING Krakoa, but he is definitely leading it.

  3. #6078
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHRNIHAL View Post
    He already said about X-force.
    He has something else now.



    That makes sense.If nostalgia is his thing.
    And CC is still pissed about.Maybe White is too.Can't blame him on that.
    Oh, if it's not X-Force it must be Deadly Genesis. That's why I suppose Vulcan would be on the House of X / Powers of X poster. I can not think of anything else reprehensible before Utopia.

  4. #6079
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    "Also, Cyclops putting minors in X-force is wrong. Wolverine using those minors on the team rather to report it to the X-men is right, because...reasons".

    Really, knowing JDW reads this forums (and it's probably not the only at Marvel) and sees both how the fans react to those stuff and specially WHY they do and how ridiculous it all sounds makes me yet again wonder about the "someone's ego got hurt in AvX" theory. It's the only idea that fits.
    I really doubt these boards represent a significant portion of the fanbase. Wolverine gets so much hate here and his thread is so small compared to others and yet he is the biggest seller,Scott gets tons of hate too and he still is super popular.
    at least I hope the people at Marvel don't make their decisions from here, a few posters can be very passionate but not in a good way.
    My opinions are my own

  5. #6080
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    But what did Cyclops do that was so bad in Deadly Genesis?

  6. #6081
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    But what did Cyclops do that was so bad in Deadly Genesis?
    Take Xavier out of the school. A bit rude but comprensible. During Messiah Complex he was also rude with Xavier because he did not stop disavowing hm in front of the rest.

    Maybe for JDW that is unforgivable.

  7. #6082
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I really doubt these boards represent a significant portion of the fanbase. Wolverine gets so much hate here and his thread is so small compared to others and yet he is the biggest seller, to a certain extend the same applies to Scott.
    at least I hope the people at Marvel don't make their decisions from here.
    Oh, I don't mean this board, or any other, is meant to be a 100% representative of what's going on in fandom- but it's a fact the majority of fans sided with the X-men in AvX, and it was not only on the Internet- in the conventions, there were many reports of people doing the same. And in Schism, it was also an indicator the fact UXM (both under Gillen and Bendis) continued to sell more than WatXM despite not having Logan on the team.

    And, like I said, the most important is not whether we're criticizing the insistence on the Cyclops was wrong idea, but the WHY. Continuing to push this makes no logical sense.

  8. #6083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Take Xavier out of the school. A bit rude but comprensible. During Messiah Complex he was also rude with Xavier because he did not stop disavowing hm in front of the rest.

    Maybe for JDW that is unforgivable.
    Like I said, in Brubaker's UXM itself, Xavier was shown to be there at the school just fine, it was just Cyclops UNDERSTANDABLY snapping at him, and Brubaker himself didn't mean to be permanent.

    The X-force thing makes more sense, even if it's wrong.

  9. #6084
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Like I said, in Brubaker's UXM itself, Xavier was shown to be there at the school just fine, it was just Cyclops UNDERSTANDABLY snapping at him, and Brubaker himself didn't mean to be permanent.

    The X-force thing makes more sense, even if it's wrong.
    I dont know. Perhaps the mere fact of militarizing the X-Men is already wrong to JDW?

  10. #6085
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced there's something else going on here- I mean, Marvel wanted Iron Man to be right in Civil War, but once they realized most people thought it was Cap who was right, they quickly abandoned the idea; Marvel wanted Emma as a villain post IvX with the stupid helmet, then with the backlash of this and that Secret Empire story in Blue, they abandoned the idea and JDW even made a joke about it recently, etc.

    They could have simply admitted the X-men were right or, at the very least, forget AvX, Schism, etc, ever happened. But the fact they've double down on the narrative with the Terrigen at first being all Cyclops' fault (and then Emma, and not some villain) and even now in 2019 are still insisting on this "Cyclops needs redemption" stuff indicates to me that somebody's ego got very hurt when almost everyone sided with the X-men and Cyclops' specially in AvX and made The Avengers right after the movie, plus Spider-man and Wolverine, look like assholes, and now they can't let this narrative go until most people buy it or whoever is responsible leaves the company.

    A bruised ego by some editor or boss might seem a reach, but remember: the alternative is Marvel simply can't let go of 7-8 years old stories and insist on a version that displeased the fans and is blatantly false, even though they're literally not doing it anywhere else and never did.
    Maybe. Given the departure of Axel Alonso in Nov of 2017 as EIC, and his replacement by CB Cebulski this could just be the effects of regime change. Note JDW's tweet below and it's mention of Alonso specifically.



    If Cebulski shares JDW perspective on this, than it's likely that only since Alonso's departure does the editorial atmosphere at Marvel allow them to "properly" resolve their issues with the character. So yes, it's could be very much as you suggest. I don't see how this makes for a good story though. I'd hate to think it's all just someone with an axe to grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    On the contrary. JDW's remark has to do with something Scott did before "Schism". My guess is he's referring to the formation of kill-squad X-Force. Jean's already forgiven Scott for the affair with Emma so that's out.

    OTOH, who knows, maybe White is one of those who's still pissed about Scott walking out on Madelyne back in 1986.
    Again, I don't see the point in looping back to a 9+ year old story line just to further disparage a key character, while your companies been disparaging the character pretty consistently the entire time since that run anyway. Does editorial want to end Scott as a moral leader of the X-Men permanently, ala Charles? Do they simply want to minimize him by sticking him perpetually in "I need to redeem myself" cycles, or is this really about putting the past behind him. If it is, the best course of action is to just move on rather than lingering even more on a sore topic more likely to drive his fans away than anything simply because it's just more of the same. I can't recall any other major Marvel character that is more continuously described as morally questionable or contemptible without actually showing it.

    You know, it's speculation like this that gives credence to Marvel's most vocal critics...

  11. #6086
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    I really can not understand anyone believing that Extinction Team was Brotherhood.

    In the few that lasted all they did was face Sinister, try to fix the mess that is Tabula Rasa (mess of which Logan is guilty, by the way) and the arc that the only bad thing they did was to let the Avengers will take care of one thing while they rescue Hope.

    It's as if JDW had read a different comic from the one I read.

  12. #6087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I really can not understand anyone believing that Extinction Team was Brotherhood.

    In the few that lasted all they did was face Sinister, try to fix the mess that is Tabula Rasa (mess of which Logan is guilty, by the way) and the arc that the only bad thing they did was to let the Avengers will take care of one thing while they rescue Hope.

    It's as if JDW had read a different comic from the one I read.
    Because it had evil people on it like Magneto, Magik, Namor, and Emma. Those are all monsters who cannot be redeemed in the eyes of JDW.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  13. #6088
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    The funny thing is that even with the power to do so, they never showed Cyclops being the villain.

    They could've show how terrible the X-Force and put kids on the battlefield is. But Wolverine kept doing it.

    They could've show that Scott was wrong about Hope, that she was no Messiah. But he was right.

    Or they could've made him kill Inhumans some way. But he died heroically.

    I think I should stop before they read what I wrote and retcon the stories.

  14. #6089
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because it had evil people on it like Magneto, Magik, Namor, and Emma. Those are all monsters who cannot be redeemed in the eyes of JDW.
    It's as if he had only stayed with the superficial "They look like villains!" and he had not read the comic. Yes, most of the team had been villains but at that moment they were doing only heroic things. Scott was even aware of what they looked like and that's why he convinced Storm to stay with them to keep him at bay.

  15. #6090
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because it had evil people on it like Magneto, Magik, Namor, and Emma. Those are all monsters who cannot be redeemed in the eyes of JDW.
    And here it goes back again to JDW's view of the X-men is 100% filled with childhood nostalgia, that not only doesn't reflect the comics of today, it doesn't even reflect the comics of back then- Wolverine was always an unrepentant killer. Storm eventually became extremely hardened, almost all the X-men and X-factor members killed during the Mutant Massacre, Storm and Betsy had no problems mindwiping and considered killing Havok, etc. It's a vision that never existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    Maybe. Given the departure of Axel Alonso in Nov of 2017 as EIC, and his replacement by CB Cebulski this could just be the effects of regime change. Note JDW's tweet below and it's mention of Alonso specifically.



    If Cebulski shares JDW perspective on this, than it's likely that only since Alonso's departure does the editorial atmosphere at Marvel allow them to "properly" resolve their issues with the character. So yes, it's could be very much as you suggest. I don't see how this makes for a good story though. I'd hate to think it's all just someone with an axe to grind.
    But this kind of non-sense continued even with Alonso was around- it was under his tenure that we had the "Cyclops was the new Hitler, then died" stuff.

    Unfortunately, it does seem someone has an axe to grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    It's as if he had only stayed with the superficial "They look like villains!" and he had not read the comic. Yes, most of the team had been villains but at that moment they were doing only heroic things. Scott was even aware of what they looked like and that's why he convinced Storm to stay with them to keep him at bay.
    Unfortunately, JDW does strike me as the kind of person that has such a fixed view of certain characters and of the X-men as whole are that he can't help but think of in other terms but "heroes and villains" and no room in between. It has Emma, Magneto, Namor, Magik? Has a more aggressive approach than usual for the X-men? They have to be The Brotherhood, even if they are not evil with a capital E. But they can't be "good guys".

    Mind you, I don't think that will affect Hickman's books much.
    Last edited by Omega Alpha; 06-24-2019 at 02:40 PM.

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