Hell yes!
Absolutely!
I did not like Rightclops because he was edgy, I liked hum because finally the X-Men seemed to take ideas like self-determination and safe spaces. Scott was opposed to police brutality, to the prison industry ... He was being a force for change instead of using the Xavier strategy of "If we show them that we are good they can tolerate our existence".
Scott felt modern, in tune with the 21st century and how discrimination does not look the same now as when the X-Men were born in the 1960s.
In our Lord and Savior, Jonathan of the House of Hickman I trust. But without him around, vou would be right. We would probably just see variations of X-men Gold, just less on the nose about it. Seems like the dream of some at Marvel (not all) is ignore everything after 1992 except X-23 and Magik being adult again.
Again, that's not what a lot of our problem is, it's not about going away from "rightclops" it'ss basically saying everything he did in that era was all bad or he was a villain, He made some mistakes yes, but not as big as they are being made to be, nor was he the only one. The thing is always going back to that era as him being completely wrong and it being one sided, when it wasn't. Nothing wrong with him evolving and wanting to take a more pacifist route now that he seen where it took him with his friends and family(I mean,he still cared about them,it's not really his fault they hated him he can't control that),but that doesn't mean he was wrong for doing it.
Also, "Rightclops" has been dead since like 2014 anyway.
Last edited by Neocide; 06-24-2019 at 07:15 PM.
Yep. Like I said, even back then he disbanded X-force because there was no need for it. But Marvel seems hell-bent in throw away and reject everything that happened in the 21st century with him, which, regardless whether you prefer the modern take or not, It's illogical from a business sense: why would you want to make most fans of one of your most popular characters angry for no reason? They could simply not address the Decimation era, but they are doing it and their approach borders on pathetic sometimes- any time Havok opens his mouth, most notably.
Ideally, Scott would return to a more heroic version of himself in a natural fashion. The realization that people cheered when the mutants all vanished, that going as dark as he did was basically for nothing, these things alone should be enough to make him assess himself in a very critical light, even if he was moving away from that based on it not being needed anymore.
But what we currently have, where other characters have what they did on panel brushed aside while Scott is guilty for the headcanon of the current Marvel staff is just 10 shades of disgusting.
Dark does not mean deep.
Tried to articulate why RightClops felt like a natural progression, and you've nailed most of my thoughts perfectly. It feels like the current X-Office is trying to cash in on nostalgia because the creative team is in a slump, but the social context/argument has already evolved with time.
I'm more amused JDW came on here and confirmed he's firing his headcanon. Like, way to drop the ball on your agenda. I'll say it before and I'll say it again: being an X-Editor is probably the easiest job in the world.
Is it bad that it took me a moment to distinguish one from the other? And even after that, I'm only 50% sure? XD
Let your wallet talk.
Never forget, Cyke fans~ https://twitter.com/i/status/1246248602768486402
Jean had more presence in death than Cyke in Hickman's entire run.
Hickman succeeded where 2010s Marvel didn't: make the X-Men villainous and irrelevant.
Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced mutant supremacy and racism against humans.
For other Cyke-centered stories by a Cyclops fan: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1008144...ffle-or-Boogie
The problem of mentioning X-23 in X-Force is that it forces to mention the elephant in the room that is that Tyke and Laura had a teenage crush.
If X-force will be brought up, it will almost certainly be in Rosenberg's run- Elixir being there makes it possible. Of course bringing it up would, in theory, have to acnowledge the fact that Wolverine, despite complaining, was also using teenagers in X-force and could have put an end to it, but since JDW loves Schism so much and thought Cyclops was wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't brought up at all.
Let your wallet talk.
Never forget, Cyke fans~ https://twitter.com/i/status/1246248602768486402
Jean had more presence in death than Cyke in Hickman's entire run.
Hickman succeeded where 2010s Marvel didn't: make the X-Men villainous and irrelevant.
Hilariously, the X-Men have now fully embraced mutant supremacy and racism against humans.
For other Cyke-centered stories by a Cyclops fan: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1008144...ffle-or-Boogie
Scott's still a broken man. He's turned a corner since his resurrection and merger with Tyke, but he's still a man smashed to pieces by years of loss. He's no longer in denial and started taking responsibility for his actions--a process that began at the end of Bendis's run but got preempted by Secret Wars and then IvX--and he's trying to do the right thing. He's still not healed nor whole, though. In other words, Scott isn't RightClops anymore, but he's still not BoyScott, either. He's...TykeClops.
As for JDW, he and whichever writer(s) he's working with have a story they want to tell that JDW feels very strongly about. We can't properly judge it, or what exactly JDW feels Scott still needs redemption for, until we see it explicitly spelled out.
When I was talking about RightClops fans, I wasn't referring to you. That portion of my comments was my analysis of where the disconnect between RightClops fans and Marvel editorial came from.This isn't about BoyClops vs RightClops. In case you've forgotten, I tend to prefer Scott's classic characterization.
That's not yet clear. Again, I have a hunch JDW was referring to the end of Rosenberg's run as, based on what we've seen so far, Hickman isn't going to be continuing current story threads.That's said I can still call a spade a spade. The fact that editorial seems unable to move on from this one perspective of Scott and are unwilling to accept that anything's changed since AvX is the problem. Supposedly we are about to open up a new era for the X-Men, but not for Scott.
What I meant by "threading the needle" wasn't using Scott's years of loss and reunion with Jean as a means of "redemption".* Rather, I meant that as an alternative to "redemption". A way of reconciling Scott's Extinction-era behavior with the more traditional hero Marvel seems to want to turn him back into, but in a way that's broadly credible to the fanbase. Scott didn't so much go bad during those years as go slowly nuts due to worsening PTSD.I'd be the first one to root for Jean and Scott getting back together, but I'd hate to think that we need to go to those lengths for Scott to be morally acceptable to the X-Men, or even himself. Could you imagine Marvel ever trying the reverse. They'd be tarred and feathered nine ways from Sunday. If we're to take anything from Jean's book, how about a convenient retcon that absolves Scott of all responsibly so we just move on from this broken and unconvincing narrative that Scott needs further penance.
*You seem to be using "redemption" to refer to Scott's standing with the rest of the X-Men. I've been using "redemption" in a broader, meta sense, referring to Marvel's desire to re-characterize Scott as a more traditional hero.
Anyway, Scott doesn't need "redemption". He needs love, understanding, and a whole shitload of therapy.
Last edited by FUBAR007; 06-25-2019 at 07:50 AM.
Of course Scott right now is broken: not only he thinks all the X-men are dead, including Jean and his son, he literally doesn't remember the woman he loved and loved him in the last few years. Hell, he probably thinks he spent all those years since Jean died alone, without any support, and also died alone. Also, unless Rosenberg is going to pull a retcon, we've already seen everything that Scott could probably need redemption for, and it makes zero sense. And considering JDW hasn't said ONE WORD about Logan needing redemption, when he's guilty of every crime Scott is and then a lot more, and even Bishop will be back in the X-men, not only is hypocritical, but smells like there's ulterior motives.
Can we get the thread title changed to "JDW Speculation Thread"?
No, we are not allowed to use "thread" in thread names.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ARDS-amp-RULES