Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Glio]

I can't help but wonder what's the official line on that particular incident.

If Cyclops was indeed WrongAboutEverything™, was Toad RightandHeroicandTotallytheVictimCurseYouSummers™ in trying to beat up a teenager to death with a liquor bottle in an attempt to undo aforementioned WrongnessAboutEverything™?

Toad was mentally unstable because of the hundreds of deaths Scott caused, that is, Alchemy and Scott.

He must have been much closer to Alchemy than we suspected.

[Jordan D. White]

What about those upcoming stories you referred to previously in this thread, I assume those are still coming out?

There were a lot of assumptions about what that meant and they were all wrong--which makes sense, you guys look at things very differently than I do, and rightly so. We have very different roles in all this.

[Jordan D. White]

Remember folks.
Attachment 83811

I made that image.

[TheDeadSpace]

Say whaa...? Cyke was vilified in the first place for n̶o̶t̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶u̶... I mean, hurting folks' feelings. He's totally repeating the mistakes of the past.

Well, that explains a lot...

[xiyon]

Here is my gift to you all--I have no plans to put out any stories regarding whether Cyclops in that era was right pretty much ever again. As far as I am concerned, the annual was the end of that storyline.

From now on, we can all judge him by his current actions.

<sees X-Men vote to gas people because of convenient lack of telepathic immunity despite prior history indicating otherwise>

oooooh boy...

But, eh, I appreciate the olive branch. Really, I do. But at this point, I'm really hoping Hickman pulls off something great. At the least, his track record shows he's actually got a good handle on character histories.

[Ulfhammer]

LOL, yes. But if people ask me if he was wrong, I am still going to say yes.

I’d very much appreciate that. As for opinions, of course we should all be free to have and express them. What ends up on the page is what’s important.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

He must have been much closer to Alchemy than we suspected.

Nah. Had Toad been that close to Alchemy, we would've gotten a glorious mini in which he'd try to exact vengeance upon Emma with Hitler memes and savage beatings. Better to (as usual, really) chalk it up to "Cyclops making dudebros and their bitter hags act crazy for hilariously obvious reasons."

[Glio]

Nah. Had Toad been that close to Alchemy, we would've gotten a glorious mini in which he'd try to exact vengeance upon Emma with Hitler memes and savage beatings. Better to (as usual, really) chalk it up to "Cyclops making dudebros and their bitter hags act crazy for hilariously obvious reasons."

They had exactly the same nose. Do you know how hard it is to find that for Toad?

Cyclops took from Toad the only friend he had in this life.

[Omega Alpha]

The issue is that his current actions are shaped by a need to be redeemed for his actions before. The disconnect doesn't disappear simply because the last era isn't spoken of.

Yeah, and the character that is described by the writer as his favorite constant complaints doesn't help, specially because apparently we are supposed to agree with those. If someone can explain to me why Havok thinks Cyclops is to blame for the current situation of the X-men, I very much appreciate it.

The beauty of the debate is not knowing whether he was right or not, it is not even knowing what we are referring to. Scott did hundreds of actions and of course not all can be right or wrong. It is like playing "Guess who?", each time we get closer.

At this point I do not want "Cyclops was right", I want to know what he did wrong. Because the half page explanation of "All lives matters" of the Annual does not satisfy me at all.

And the worst part is that this already happened before in the Terrigen era. Seems, again, like someone REALLY just wants people to think Cyclops was wrong and evil, but without any reason why.

LOL, yes. But if people ask me if he was wrong, I am still going to say yes.

And here's the kicker- why? It all goes back to this- Marvel has been telling us since Schism and then AvX that Cyclops is wrong, but without ever providing an exact specific point, or an alternative. And now we have Cyclops looking for redemption, while people that UNQUESTIONABLY did worse stuff like Wolverine and Bishop are supposed to heroes or anti-heroes at best.

Apparently, Cyclops allowing teenagers to fight, including putting them in a death squad they volunteered- wrong (even though that's literally the original premise of the X-men, minus the death squad part) and he has to atone and find redemption. He's also guilty for killing Xavier, even though that would never happened if the Avengers had listened to him and didn't shoot the Phoenix Force.

Meanwhile, Wolverine using those same teenagers in the death squad, continuing with it, resulting in it killing a child in the very first arc, and then trying to murder a 16 year old in AvX- doesn't even get addressed. Bishop spends 15 years in the future trying to murder a girl- HERO.

Sorry, but not only I see no logic in this, I fail to see how anyone can.

[Gray Lensman]

LOL, yes. But if people ask me if he was wrong, I am still going to say yes.

I've read and watched too many stories where there is a 'keep my word to the letter' ending that winds up being very bad.


For him being wrong, I can understand the intent, but too little was shown on the page or it was undermined by other books.

For example, the story setup with Schism (and I agree more with Logan's stance in that story even if I think he was wrong in that very moment) was undercut by Logan's students always being in danger while Scott's remaining students were never shown to be in any (granted, this is by virtue of being off panel, but such things still matter).

In AvX, we were told about him not giving up the Phoenix Force, but not one of the other four ever did that either (which would have gone a loooong ways towards making that narrative stick). To say nothing of the way Cap came across in that story (Colossus talked some guys down? We must attack now!).

Or the story of X-Force, which by having Scott form such a squad is a major step away from what he used to be, but then after he disbands it another one is formed behind his back and even after that new one is found out no one seems to overly care about it. It can't be terrible when one person does it and then be awesome and kickass when someone else does it right after.

[Omega Alpha]

They had exactly the same nose. Do you know how hard it is to find that for Toad?

Cyclops took from Toad the only friend he had in this life.

Toad was trying to kill Hitler while he was still a teen. He was a hero, if you ask me. TOAD WAS RIGHT!

I've read and watched too many stories where there is a 'keep my word to the letter' ending that winds up being very bad.


For him being wrong, I can understand the intent, but too little was shown on the page or it was undermined by other books.

For example, the story setup with Schism (and I agree more with Logan's stance in that story even if I think he was wrong in that very moment) was undercut by Logan's students always being in danger while Scott's remaining students were never shown to be in any (granted, this is by virtue of being off panel, but such things still matter).

In AvX, we were told about him not giving up the Phoenix Force, but not one of the other four ever did that either (which would have gone a loooong ways towards making that narrative stick). To say nothing of the way Cap came across in that story (Colossus talked some guys down? We must attack now!).

Or the story of X-Force, which by having Scott form such a squad is a major step away from what he used to be, but then after he disbands it another one is formed behind his back and even after that new one is found out no one seems to overly care about it. It can't be terrible when one person does it and then be awesome and kickass when someone else does it right after.

Exactly. And remember the very first story about that X-force ends with one of them murdering a child.

[Glio]

You do not understand, if Scott had done the right thing that we all know that he did wrong then Nate Grey would not have fallen ill, found a Life Seed and provoked all this mess.

[Ulfhammer]

There were a lot of assumptions about what that meant and they were all wrong--which makes sense, you guys look at things very differently than I do, and rightly so. We have very different roles in all this.

It may be worth pointing out that if a message is broadly misunderstood, that’s likely due to how the message is conveyed rather then how it’s decoded.

Of course you have to balance factors we can’t consider, because we aren’t privy to them, or only peripherally so, which I think is what you’re saying here. If so, I can accept that and appreciate the point, even if it dooms much of the communication we can reasonably have to the realm of the cryptic and misleading. That’s part of the fun of trying to work out what’s really going on.

[xiyon]

I've read and watched too many stories where there is a 'keep my word to the letter' ending that winds up being very bad.


For him being wrong, I can understand the intent, but too little was shown on the page or it was undermined by other books.

For example, the story setup with Schism (and I agree more with Logan's stance in that story even if I think he was wrong in that very moment) was undercut by Logan's students always being in danger while Scott's remaining students were never shown to be in any (granted, this is by virtue of being off panel, but such things still matter).

In AvX, we were told about him not giving up the Phoenix Force, but not one of the other four ever did that either (which would have gone a loooong ways towards making that narrative stick). To say nothing of the way Cap came across in that story (Colossus talked some guys down? We must attack now!).

Or the story of X-Force, which by having Scott form such a squad is a major step away from what he used to be, but then after he disbands it another one is formed behind his back and even after that new one is found out no one seems to overly care about it. It can't be terrible when one person does it and then be awesome and kickass when someone else does it right after.

The other problem of AvX is the setup and conclusion.

Cyke: Only Hope can control the Phoenix and undo Wanda's curse. Cable and everyone here trained her. She was born to do this.
Avengers: HOW CAN YOU BE SO SURE?!?!?!?!?!
Cyke: I have faith

-snafu happens-

Tony: We need Hope to control the Phoenix.
Avengers: Can she?
Tony: She can. I have faith. Also, she can balance buckets now.

[TheDeadSpace]

Here is my gift to you all--I have no plans to put out any stories regarding whether Cyclops in that era was right pretty much ever again. As far as I am concerned, the annual was the end of that storyline.

From now on, we can all judge him by his current actions.

We got that bad, huh? Well, that's at least nice to hear and see from you. Honestly, this is a surprise.