Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

LMAO at that hilariously passive-aggressive Twitter move. The X-Men left mutantkind choke to death for an entire year just to spite a dead dudebro who wouldn't put out. I don't see any editors/writers insisting on revisiting that particular era ad nauseum in order to "fix it", lol.

Anyway. So, yeah, that UXM preview. Juggernaut having issues with Cyclops getting laid too, huh? Kind of an amusing shocker, actually.

[Omega Alpha]

LMAO at that hilariously passive-aggressive Twitter move. The X-Men left mutantkind choke to death for an entire year just to spite a dead dudebro who wouldn't put out. I don't see any editors/writers insisting on revisiting that particular era ad nauseum in order to "fix it", lol.

Since JDW seems to have a need to answer any of my posts criticizing him (already happened, what, 3 times? Never in my life i'd expect to become an X-editor magnet, LOL), I'd like him to post a few Twitter polls:

a) Does Cyclops need redemption?
b) Who was right in Schism?
c) Who was right in AvX?
d) Do you think it's fair that Marvel wants to portray Cyclops as wrong, but has no problems in making Bishop a hero, and just sweep aside the fact Logan tried to murder an innocent teenage girl in AvX, or used teenagers in X-force?
e) (Bonus) Should Emma Frost be a X-man?

Dude doesn't seem like a bad person, or even a bad editor, but he's like Guggenheim in the sense that part of him will never accept it is not 1985 anymore- I say 1985 because going to 1986 you have the Madelyne thing, Mutant Massacre with all the X-men and X-factor killing, Storm and Psylocke mind-wiping Havok, Magneto joining the X-men, etc- and he just won't get why people don't want to come back as much as possible.

[Ulfhammer]

Because part of getting to upper management, especially in a big company like Marvel, means never ever admitting you were wrong about anything, and how well you perform in shifting blame to others. That's why my hype for Hickman is gone. Regardless of what he says, if JDW wants a mopey pointless Scott with a forever redemption arc, or a cartoonishly stupid Magneto or a cartoonishly stupid Emma, he's going to get it and Hickman will just have to deal with it. That way any blame about those can be shifting to Hickman.

I can't help but think there's more to it than that. No offense to JDW but he doesn't strike me as an A-Type corporate climber. I think he legitimately believes what he's saying, which makes it all the more baffling. Perhaps there's an ideological difference here that we're all hesistant to discuss?

I disagree. When you work at a company, you tow the line or you get tossed. White still runs the show at the end of the day. He can claim til the cows come home that Hickman was complete creative freedom, but I don't believe it for a second.

We'll never know because these kinds of deliberations rightly belong behind closed doors. That said, it's also his job as editor to get the most out of Hickman. Crushing or suppressing the creative spark isn't going to help the books and the way I heard it, Hickman clearly has a vision at work here.

I kinda doubt it has to do with Scott, but maybe? So, is he implying Scott became "as bad as the ones he fought against" from the moment he sanctioned X-Force or something? It's a fallacy and a typical first-worlder way of thinking, so it wouldn't surprise if that was the case. I'm actually kind of curious about what he means.

I have no idea because he's being intentionally ambiguous on the matter, supposedly to protect the integrity of future story lines that according to him will never have to do with Scott being wrong again.... You figure out that logic.

Ulf you and MM616 are of the few who could articulate the issues of the current Scott direction. If this is the answer yer given, I dont see much hope for the upcoming Hickman.

If the books aren't good, they won't sell. That's the best defense we have I think.

Regarding the poll: either JDW is extremely dense and didn't get the point of what we were saying, or, most likely, did and is searching for validation. Notice he didn't use Cyclops in the poll, because he KNOWS he would lose. Also, se didn't lose touch with editorial, it was the other way around: JDW, and clearly a lot of editors at Marvel, are illusion of change kind of people, while the fans as a rule want to see new stuff and characters moving forward.

Yes, he knows because that poll, or some variation of it, has been done. Here and on Twitsville. Still begs the question of why the architect of the X-Line can't see eye to eye on perhaps the biggest single narrative in the post NXM era, that being Scott's development. It would be great to actually hear a fully formed argument from JDW on why he thinks the way he does. I'd like to think he's maybe developed a perspective on this that I haven't considered.

[maxi_miceli]

Scott looked like he was going the way of the phoenix by purging everything and rebuilding.

It's important to mention that this was the way the problem was solved, just that the FF were better equiped to made the new universe like the old one instead of starting from scratch like the Phoenix would have done

[MechaJeanix]

Scott fans you are now feeling what some of us have felt for man years.. especially those fans of characters who are reset in numerous ways including retcons. I think you just have to move on from "Rightclops" or the Cyclops was wrong narrative. That story is over. Scott's characterization will change and move forward with Hickman. I don't think he will reflect much on his past. Teen Scott kind of did that with his reactions to his adult self and the direction he went.

Scott had an amazing run but that run is now over. I feel the pain. I wish Jean was still the New X-men version, but alas she also experienced a reset. In soaps and in comics characters usually go back to their original configuration even after they go through an amazing change for the better.

[Ulfhammer]

Since JDW seems to have a need to answer any of my posts criticizing him (already happened, what, 3 times? Never in my life i'd expect to become an X-editor magnet, LOL), I'd like him to post a few Twitter polls:

a) Does Cyclops need redemption?
b) Who was right in Schism?
c) Who was right in AvX?
d) Do you think it's fair that Marvel wants to portray Cyclops as wrong, but has no problems in making Bishop a hero, and just sweep aside the fact Logan tried to murder an innocent teenage girl in AvX, or used teenagers in X-force?
e) (Bonus) Should Emma Frost be a X-man?

Dude doesn't seem like a bad person, or even a bad editor, but he's like Guggenheim in the sense that part of him will never accept it is not 1985 anymore- I say 1985 because going to 1986 you have the Madelyne thing, Mutant Massacre with all the X-men and X-factor killing, Storm and Psylocke mind-wiping Havok, Magneto joining the X-men, etc- and he just won't get why people don't want to come back as much as possible.

Remember that when the MM came out, we were only five years away from the X-Books hitting their high water mark for sales. I highly doubt he'd have presided over the 80's story lines or art. The art standards of the X-Books (and Marvel in general) have fallen off a cliff. I can only think of a handful of books that have come out in the last two years that actually did a decent job in this regard and even then it hasn't been consistent. Look at that Prisoner X #5 preview that came out today and tell me that would have been printed in the 80's. No, I don't think nostalgia has anything to do with it. If it did, we'd have the kind of quality in writing, editing and art that we saw in the 80's and we definitely don't have that.

[AJpyro]

It's important to mention that this was the way the problem was solved, just that the FF were better equiped to made the new universe like the old one instead of starting from scratch like the Phoenix would have done

So basically AvX but Reed Richards can actually back up his stuff?

Scott fans you are now feeling what some of us have felt for man years.. especially those fans of characters who are reset in numerous ways including retcons. I think you just have to move on from "Rightclops" or the Cyclops was wrong narrative. That story is over. Scott's characterization will change and move forward with Hickman. I don't think he will reflect much on his past. Teen Scott kind of did that with his reactions to his adult self and the direction he went.

Scott had an amazing run but that run is now over. I feel the pain. I wish Jean was still the New X-men version, but alas she also experienced a reset. In soaps and in comics characters usually go back to their original configuration even after they go through an amazing change for the better.

I can see what your sayin and in a way you are right. Maybe its because I'm probably the youngest of comic readers here(really got started in 2012) but it still feels wrong on how this has played out. It feels like the actual root of the problem is not addressed or at least not to satisfying(to some, to me) way and when this happens again, do we just shrug and say "well that was that. Next please"?

Maybe I'm still to new and am expecting the wrong thing?

[Ulfhammer]

Scott fans you are now feeling what some of us have felt for man years.. especially those fans of characters who are reset in numerous ways including retcons. I think you just have to move on from "Rightclops" or the Cyclops was wrong narrative. That story is over. Scott's characterization will change and move forward with Hickman. I don't think he will reflect much on his past. Teen Scott kind of did that with his reactions to his adult self and the direction he went.

Read Uncanny and tell me that's true. The fans want to move on. It's the creators that are stuck.

Scott had an amazing run but that run is now over. I feel the pain. I wish Jean was still the New X-men version, but alas she also experienced a reset. In soaps and in comics characters usually go back to their original configuration even after they go through an amazing change for the better.

Scott going back to a more classic depiction is fine with me. I liked him before NXM and I've come to like a lot of what came after too. Luckily Scott's verily bulletproof. All the "RightClops" stuff really differs very little from his classic depictions anyway. It's the circumstances that have changed. Sure, Rosenberg's gone off the rails with him but he's kind of done that with everyone.

[AJpyro]

Going to sign up for marvel unlimited. Any significant runs I should pay attention to/skip for Scott? Do I need the Lee era?

[TheDeadSpace]

Read Uncanny and tell me that's true. The fans want to move on. It's the creators that are stuck.

Scott going back to a more classic depiction is fine with me. I liked him before NXM and I've come to like a lot of what came after too. Luckily Scott's verily bulletproof. All the "RightClops" stuff really differs very little from his classic depictions anyway. It's the circumstances that have changed. Sure, Rosenberg's gone off the rails with him but he's kind of done that with everyone.

I agree completely. I mentioned it before, but the issue is that we seem to be going in circles with Scott. I'm open to moving forward, but the stories we are getting seem keen on repeating the same arc.

[Omega Alpha]

Scott fans you are now feeling what some of us have felt for man years.. especially those fans of characters who are reset in numerous ways including retcons. I think you just have to move on from "Rightclops" or the Cyclops was wrong narrative. That story is over. Scott's characterization will change and move forward with Hickman. I don't think he will reflect much on his past. Teen Scott kind of did that with his reactions to his adult self and the direction he went.

Scott had an amazing run but that run is now over. I feel the pain. I wish Jean was still the New X-men version, but alas she also experienced a reset. In soaps and in comics characters usually go back to their original configuration even after they go through an amazing change for the better.

But the thing is he and seemingly the X-books are still insisting on this after years. Also, the most important storyline of the X-books in the 21st century was probably Scott's development and also Emma finding her place in the X-men, not to mention their relationship, and the editor of the X-books just wants to say It's all wrong, but doesn't give us ONE reason. He even says seriously that Emma doesn't fit a tradicional X-men team, which means he's deliberately ignoring Marvel's most popular book of the last 20 years or so (Whedon's) for...reasons. He's stuck with a view of the franchise that doesn't really fit anything done after The Trial of Magneto.

[Omega Alpha]

Read Uncanny and tell me that's true. The fans want to move on. It's the creators that are stuck.



Scott going back to a more classic depiction is fine with me. I liked him before NXM and I've come to like a lot of what came after too. Luckily Scott's verily bulletproof. All the "RightClops" stuff really differs very little from his classic depictions anyway. It's the circumstances that have changed. Sure, Rosenberg's gone off the rails with him but he's kind of done that with everyone.

All this. Thr problem is that while most fans wouldn't care if Scott simply said "we don't need an aggressive approach anymore", Marvel seemingly will not be happy until we say "The X-men NEVER needed an aggressive approach and all Scott did in the 21st century was WRONG".

[MechaJeanix]

But the thing is he and seemingly the X-books are still insisting on this after years. Also, the most important storyline of the X-books in the 21st century was probably Scott's development and also Emma finding her place in the X-men, not to mention their relationship, and the editor of the X-books just wants to say It's all wrong, but doesn't give us ONE reason. He even says seriously that Emma doesn't fit a tradicional X-men team, which means he's deliberately ignoring Marvel's most popular book of the last 20 years or so (Whedon's) for...reasons. He's stuck with a view of the franchise that doesn't really fit anything done after The Trial of Magneto.

I agree with you to a point. I get super annoyed with the creators that want Emma to be a villain. She is an X-man and deserves a spot on the team. She's been too important since New X-men (yes I know she was significant in Generation X). I think some creators are stuck in the 90's which is kind of the worst X-men era (though there were some good moments).

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

All this. Thr problem is that while most fans wouldn't care if Scott simply said "we don't need an aggressive approach anymore", Marvel seemingly will not be happy until we say "The X-men NEVER needed an aggressive approach and all Scott did in the 21st century was WRONG".

Especially that one time he put the rebirth of mutantkind on hold so he could try to make world peace an actual thing. What a jerk.

[xiyon]

Who needs a good story with good characters when you can sell political agendas thru plot-induced stupidity~~~~~!

Gawd, I sure hope Hickman knows his editor is trying to sabotage him hahahaha

Especially that one time he put the rebirth of mutantkind on hold so he could try to make world peace an actual thing. What a jerk.

Honestly want to know how the logial gymnastics of this came about.