Scott Summers: Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Of course they did. Still made no sense whatsoever.

Scott: "I am not the new Magn..."
X-Men: "Yes, you are! You're the most evilest EVIIIIL person ever! We hate you!"
Erik: "Yo, what's up?"
X-Men: "Hi, Erik. How's your book doing?"

[FUBAR007]

Your counterargument is I'm wrong because there's 2 or 3 things he did in 15 years that he wouldn't have ever done in the 80's and 90's. I don't think that qualifies given the number of distinct actions Scott took. Let's say he undertook 200 actions in that time. If 3 of them are inconsistent I argue that falls within the expected rate of inconsistency in any comic book character. Regardless the sample size doesn't allow you to take those 3 things and say it invalidates the other 197.

...

So realistically that's maybe two things that Scott wouldn't have done in the 80's or 90's balanced against all the other actions he took post-NXM that classic Scott would have taken. You are throwing the baby out with the bath water by suggesting that these two actions, which were mostly blips on the radar, especially threats to humans, should overshadow everything else he did in that fifteen year time period and that's just not reasonable.

It's a matter of quality, not quantity. Killing Xavier wasn't a blip on the radar. Neither was mandating a kill-squad. Those decisions carried far more consequential and moral weight than run-of-the-mill tactical decisions and day-to-day behavior.

I disagree. Multiple times throughout the DPS Scott made the case to Jean that she could overcome the PF, including in UXM 137 but I think he really makes the case for this the strongest in UXM 136 where he convinces Phoenix that her humanity, and her love for her fellow teammates is why she overcomes the PF desire for destruction and spares the X-Men.

Of course this is reinforced to some extent in NXM where Scott clearly sees Jean handling the PF just fine, which is his last real exposure to the entity prior to AvX. Yes he was concerned, but ultimately that concern seemed to be misplaced when she never manifested dark phoenix.

Perhaps you'd argue that Scott should have learned his lesson from the DPS and realized the PF is trap from which there's no escape. Of course that would require the kind of alteration of thinking that you are flatly rejecting should happen for Scott.

During the Seagle run in the late 90s, Scott freaked out just because Jean started wearing the Phoenix costume again. Why? Because he was terrified she was connecting to the Phoenix Force. Why was he terrified? Because, after everything it had put Jean and him through, after everything it had put Rachel through, he knew exactly how dangerous it is.

Had 80s/90s Scott been possessed by the Phoenix Force, he would've done everything possible NOT to use it, keep himself and it contained, and get it out of him ASAP. Because he'd know there was no fucking way he could control it.

The lore on Phoenix possession is inconsistent, but we have at least one example where a fundamentally good person does fundamentally evil things under it's control. This seems to clearly align with that interpretation of how PF possession can play out. Regardless there's zero evidence that Scott by then end of AvX is of sound mind and body.

Marvel has left it ambiguous--deliberately so, I expect--as to whether it was Scott or the Phoenix Force who specifically decided to kill Xavier. Even still, in terms of culpability, it's just a question of whether Scott is guilty of manslaughter or murder, not whether or not he's guilty at all. He is.

Either way, 80s/90s Scott wouldn't have done it because he wouldn't have tried to wield the Phoenix Force in the first place. Once again, he'd know off the bat it was too much for him. That's the key difference between 80s/90s Scott and RightClops: hubris. 80s/90s Scott was wise enough to know his limits, to know the temptation of power, and to know better than to give in. RightClops, because he was a PTSD basket-case, wasn't.

Maybe this is thing number two. Obviously there's a case to made on either side. It's worth noting that threatening SHIELD or the Avengers is not the same thing as threatening humanity. There's ample evidence that SHIELD does not have mutants best interest in mind and there's even more ample evidence of that concerning the Avengers. And just because Emma say's it wasn't an idle threat, doesn't actually make it true.

The stronger argument is that he never followed through on that threat even if it was directed at humans, despite the situation for mutants getting progressively worse not better. By definition that makes it an idle threat.

He was, by his own admission, threatening the general public in national/international media. That he didn't actually want to follow through with those threats is why he was more "Magneto-lite" than "Magneto 2.0". Even as RightClops, he lacked Magneto's sadistic streak.

[Glio]

I agree on he becoming Cable but Marvel itself pushed the Magneto angle with things like this
Attachment 83965

I remember it and then in the event the only thing he did was to threaten the mayor who was about to exterminate them all.

[Hizashi]

I've argued that Scott's morally gray actions work for me in context - mutantkind being endangered.

[Kal-El Summers]

I remember it and then in the event the only thing he did was to threaten the mayor who was about to exterminate them all.

Hell, Scott even told her that if the same scenario was presented to him, he'd have never even considered it for a second.

[Gray Lensman]

I've argued that Scott's morally gray actions work for me in context - mutantkind being endangered.

Not only that, but allies were in even shorter supply for the X-Men than usual, seeing as the whole Utopia era started because the Avengers had been replaced by supervillains with hero costumes and were taking orders from Norman Osborne. The best one could get from the forces of law and order at that time was indifference, and them joining in on the slaughter was a valid fear.

[Decoy]

I wonder how Cyclops would be seen in Hickman’s run.......we know he’s part of the team proper next month, so his reputation may be on a upswing amongst the rest of the team (odds are the returning of the rest of the team combined with Xavier finally allowing others to know he’s back would ease some tensions in the Mutant Community), not sure about the other heroes, though the fact that during War of the Realms he left his ragtag team to help the Champions and told Dust to stay away (a 180 from the Utopia Era, where he wanted all hands on deck).....we’ll know in a few weeks

[maxi_miceli]

I wonder how Cyclops would be seen in Hickman’s run.......we know he’s part of the team proper next month, so his reputation may be on a upswing amongst the rest of the team (odds are the returning of the rest of the team combined with Xavier finally allowing others to know he’s back would ease some tensions in the Mutant Community), not sure about the other heroes, though the fact that during War of the Realms he left his ragtag team to help the Champions and told Dust to stay away (a 180 from the Utopia Era, where he wanted all hands on deck).....we’ll know in a few weeks

I think all we know is that Hickman said that he will be cool (when asked who was cooler, Cyclops or Wolverine, he said that at least written by him it was Cyclops) so I hope we have good times ahead of us.
Beyond that we can just guess, it is quite likely that he won't act as the leader anymore, given that all the art shows Xavier in the center, he is almost certain to regain his leader role, whether this is good or bad depends really on the writting, it should allow Cyclops to grow more as a character and not build him only around the team

[MarvelMaster616]

Whatever Hickman does with Cyclops and the rest of the X-books moving forward, there's one thing I hope we still get to see and that's more team-ups between Cyclops and Ms. Marvel. I loved their interactions in Champions #4. I loved how they played off one another when O5 Cyclops was on the team. They both relate to one another in so many unique and unexpected ways. I think there's a lot of room for more story and growth. And I hope we get to see more of that at some point.

[Omega Alpha]

I think all we know is that Hickman said that he will be cool (when asked who was cooler, Cyclops or Wolverine, he said that at least written by him it was Cyclops) so I hope we have good times ahead of us.
Beyond that we can just guess, it is quite likely that he won't act as the leader anymore, given that all the art shows Xavier in the center, he is almost certain to regain his leader role, whether this is good or bad depends really on the writting, it should allow Cyclops to grow more as a character and not build him only around the team

I wouldn't be surprised if Xavier was the villain, and doesn't lead the team after then minis.

[maxi_miceli]

I wouldn't be surprised if Xavier was the villain, and doesn't lead the team after then minis.

I would be kinda surprised, but in a good way, that would be an interesting evolution for the character

[jsg2295]

I wonder how Cyclops would be seen in Hickman’s run.......we know he’s part of the team proper next month, so his reputation may be on a upswing amongst the rest of the team (odds are the returning of the rest of the team combined with Xavier finally allowing others to know he’s back would ease some tensions in the Mutant Community), not sure about the other heroes, though the fact that during War of the Realms he left his ragtag team to help the Champions and told Dust to stay away (a 180 from the Utopia Era, where he wanted all hands on deck).....we’ll know in a few weeks

WE dont even know if Cyclops will be around after this 6 issue series. Its a month for the Xmen that supposedly changes everything. For all we know he might be retired and settling down with Lee Forrester.

[jsg2295]

Replying about Right Clops and 80/90 Clops in relation to the phoenix force is unfair. Scott didnt want the force but once it got inside,,,albeit only 20% of the total...its still a corruptable almost unlimited power.
I would agree the hubris might be in him directing the Phoenix force to Hope..but those were pretty desperate times.
I would call the killing of Xavier justifiable homicide. For all the mind games and manipulation that Xavier did to Scott all his Xmen career. I wont go into those actions here. Everyone is pretty familiar with most of them. I frequently wonder if Xavier actually subtly messed with Scott mind to accept the utter bullshit he kept throwing at him

[Zelena]

I wouldn't be surprised if Xavier was the villain, and doesn't lead the team after then minis.

Sounds ominous…

During many issues, Magneto was the "villain" and was stuck in this role… Doesn't mean he was evil (not always) but harsh, single-minded. Just an opponent, an adversary.
Do the X-men really need a villain in the traditional sense? Sounds a bit caricatural and artificial…

Otherwise, I remember Scott Summers looked happier when he was just the team leader of the X-men and with Jean too…

[Zelena]

Replying about Right Clops and 80/90 Clops in relation to the phoenix force is unfair. Scott didnt want the force but once it got inside,,,albeit only 20% of the total...its still a corruptable almost unlimited power.
I would agree the hubris might be in him directing the Phoenix force to Hope..but those were pretty desperate times.
I would call the killing of Xavier justifiable homicide. For all the mind games and manipulation that Xavier did to Scott all his Xmen career. I wont go into those actions here. Everyone is pretty familiar with most of them. I frequently wonder if Xavier actually subtly messed with Scott mind to accept the utter bullshit he kept throwing at him

I know only one justifiable homicide, it is self-defense.