Laura Kinney: X-23 Appreciation 2019

[WebLurker]

Laura fans are lucky that she at least has a solo and hasnt been isolated to the fillertastic AoX

My understanding was that the plan was to have a huge relaunch to put the franchise as a whole back on the map somehow. It would seem possible that other characters will get a spotlight in the new program and it's not a give that X-23 will be one of them. (I'm sure she's popular enough that she will be in a series somewhere and will get another solo sooner or later, just not sure where her place is in the near future is all.

[Dthirds3]

Laura fans are lucky that she at least has a solo and hasnt been isolated to the fillertastic AoX

Know what, I wonder if canceling the x line contributed to the pacing issues of x23 ? It feels the the current story could have uses a few more issues. Ex one to make us get to know the robo clone and 2 or 3 setting up Laura and gabby's fight ?

[Snoop Dogg]

Great work! Laura's style is truly special.

thank you master

there is insufficient molina appreciation in this realm

[WebLurker]

Know what, I wonder if canceling the x line contributed to the pacing issues of x23 ? It feels the the current story could have uses a few more issues. Ex one to make us get to know the robo clone and 2 or 3 setting up Laura and gabby's fight ?

Interesting perspective. I can see what you mean.

[bishopcruz]

So every opponent she faces in X-Force will have hurt Gabby (someone who can also heal) to the extent Laura will break her rules?

She wouldn't use lethal force on the people who hurt her the worst in her life. It's the whole point of her character arc.

And it's why she has gotten more and more boring since Liu's run. At least she finally killed Kimura I suppose. Laura has long since lost her bite, something that has slowly gotten to me. It's one of the reasons I never quite liked Taylor's run as much as many... was there something that predicated his desire to basically never have her use lethal force unless his pet character was endangered? I always felt like I missed something when I started reading that run.

I liked her being willing to flat out end the people who threatened those she loved and cared about, it differentiated her from nearly every other teen hero, and went from a character that when I first saw I thought would be awful... to one of my favorite X-men over the course of two brilliant mini's and an all time great runs in New X-men and Stab Force.

[Jumpyshark]

And it's why she has gotten more and more boring since Liu's run. At least she finally killed Kimura I suppose. Laura has long since lost her bite, something that has slowly gotten to me. It's one of the reasons I never quite liked Taylor's run as much as many... was there something that predicated his desire to basically never have her use lethal force unless his pet character was endangered? I always felt like I missed something when I started reading that run.

I liked her being willing to flat out end the people who threatened those she loved and cared about, it differentiated her from nearly every other teen hero, and went from a character that when I first saw I thought would be awful... to one of my favorite X-men over the course of two brilliant mini's and an all time great runs in New X-men and Stab Force.

It was literally spelled out on the page when ANW opened with a flashback to X-Force-era Logan telling her that she's capable of being more than a killer?



Hence, the decision not to kill people without serious cause.

[Triniking1234]

Know what, I wonder if canceling the x line contributed to the pacing issues of x23 ? It feels the the current story could have uses a few more issues. Ex one to make us get to know the robo clone and 2 or 3 setting up Laura and gabby's fight ?

After reading this author's She-Hulk run, I'll have to say "no".

[Mr Abductor]

And it's why she has gotten more and more boring since Liu's run. At least she finally killed Kimura I suppose. Laura has long since lost her bite, something that has slowly gotten to me. It's one of the reasons I never quite liked Taylor's run as much as many... was there something that predicated his desire to basically never have her use lethal force unless his pet character was endangered? I always felt like I missed something when I started reading that run.

I liked her being willing to flat out end the people who threatened those she loved and cared about, it differentiated her from nearly every other teen hero, and went from a character that when I first saw I thought would be awful... to one of my favorite X-men over the course of two brilliant mini's and an all time great runs in New X-men and Stab Force.

Mind wipe her like they do with Logan all the time, start her from scratch so you can ignore all that non-lethal stuff, could finally get some more gritty mature rated Laura books again.

[Nazrel]

Mind wipe her like they do with Logan all the time, start her from scratch so you can ignore all that non-lethal stuff, could finally get some more gritty mature rated Laura books again.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That is the lamest thing about him, the absolute lamest thing! As much as some people might dislike it, it was not an unnatural progression for the character. The idea that anyone could think that the reductive act of taking a character and stripping them of their history and well... character, just so you can have a murder hungry husk would be a good idea is beyond me!

[bishopcruz]

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That is the lamest thing about him, the absolute lamest thing! As much as some people might dislike it, it was not an unnatural progression for the character. The idea that anyone could think that the reductive act of taking a character and stripping them of their history and well... character, just so you can have a murder hungry husk would be a good idea is beyond me!

I agreee, that would be awful. No mind wipes needed.

Laura evolved for years without needing to do the standard 'no-kill (with rare exceptions' superhero. I do think Laura has lost her bite and no one needs the punisher. But she's NOT a standard teen X-man, or Champion, or whatever, and trying to make her such just doesn't work. I think the worst has been that writers toy with her darkness but always keep it surface level at best.

But gah, mind wipe... that would only make things worse.

It was literally spelled out on the page when ANW opened with a flashback to X-Force-era Logan telling her that she's capable of being more than a killer?



Hence, the decision not to kill people without serious cause.

Thanks for jogging my memory. That scene was awful. It was a literal retcon. After StabForce She had no compunction against killing people who deserved it. It also ignores all of Liu's run, most of Avengers Academy, and Avengers Arena as well. Now I am all for ignoring Avengers Arena, but clearly Taylor wanted to write a standard teen superhero, and not the character that we had prior to that reaching that point in a natural way.

[Dthirds3]

Mind wipe her like they do with Logan all the time, start her from scratch so you can ignore all that non-lethal stuff, could finally get some more gritty mature rated Laura books again.

So you want to take away her wanting to be and succeeding in being more the a killer, and all the development she went through to handle her depression and emotional state, two things Logan debatably didntaccomplish, turn her to Logan with boobs because she tries to uphold that xmen dont kill people.
Logan has to be mind wiped and is a mess of continuity because marvel screwed them selves and cant developed him permanently. He needs to have the hack and slash berserk rage and action anything that changes with that has to be tempory. Laura was built to be developed and grow. She can still be violent and gritty if shes pushed it was stated multiple times, however she knows how impactful killing is and is hesitant to do so.

[Mr Abductor]

@bishopcruz

So what do you do to get her not be boring for you anymore?

[bishopcruz]

@bishopcruz

So what do you do to get her not be boring for you anymore?

Interesting question. I wanted to like Taylor's run more than I actually did in practice, I really gave it the old college try... but it never quite felt like Laura to me. I got hyped for Enemy of the state 2, and that underdelivered, got hyped when Kimura came back, and that underdelivered. By the time I fell off, I realized I was reading it not because I liked the run, but because she was in in and at least it wasn't Bendis.

The best stuff I think looking back with what works with her in the earlier runs is her kind of coming to terms with who she is. She IS a killer, she IS an assassin, but she learns that she is that and also her own person. She cares deeply about those around her and will do anything to protect them. What have we gotten since then? Arc after arc of dealing with clones, and/or team ups with other heroes. Oh, and Gabby getting threatened with the question of will Laura snap THIS time? To which the answer is always no.

If I had to do anything, off the top of my head I'd says poop or get off the pot with the gabby thing. Instead of another arc of "WILL GABBY DIE?" just go for it. She adds nothing to Laura as a character so just kill her and give us Laura going John Wick for a run, it's something we haven't really seen. X-force came close, but seeing possibly the best assassin in the Marvel Universe going ham without the trigger scent? She's super intelligent, multi lingual, perfect for a la femme nikita style story. That would be something to see.

After that, put her on New Mutants or something, she works great on teams so long as the writer can actually write her as stoic with the bursts of emotion from time to time.

[Nazrel]

Thanks for jogging my memory. That scene was awful. It was a literal retcon. After StabForce She had no compunction against killing people who deserved it. It also ignores all of Liu's run, most of Avengers Academy, and Avengers Arena as well. Now I am all for ignoring Avengers Arena, but clearly Taylor wanted to write a standard teen superhero, and not the character that we had prior to that reaching that point in a natural way.

The whole rescindence to killing started in Liu's run (Issue 7), it was further reinforced in avengers academy (last arc)... he also had to try and reconcile with that clearly the immortal skrull Jazinda who didn't properly research her role version in All-New X-men. That flashback was off, but I think he had a good grasp of the character, he just insisted on being so insufferably optimistic and coddling, he had a light-dark-light-dark thing going on, but just wouldn't let the dark properly fall, and be properly oppressive and threatening, wouldn't let events push her back into that pit she climbed out of, and have her claw her way back up therefore providing a sense of meaning and accomplishment... pretty sure she'd still slit the throat of the joker though.

[Jumpyshark]

I would argue that it isn't a retcon at all to have Logan in his X-Force garb telling Laura that she doesn't have to kill and for her to still have killed afterwards. Generally, you don't just fundamentally shift in significant ways (and make it stick for a significant length of time) overnight, but moments like that can become significant again as they get repeated/reinforced, and become steps along the way.

It's hardly a ridiculous take on X-23 within the fiction, regardless of how you feel about it in terms of effectiveness. Characters get reappraised and rejigged to varying degrees by different creative teams, based on interpretation and to keep things fresh.